Georgian Hot Tub Time Machine??! what is this...

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Abi Cott
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Re: Georgian Hot Tub Time Machine??! what is this...

Post by Abi Cott » Fri 18th Aug, 2017 3:44 pm

livias wrote:
Fri 18th Aug, 2017 2:34 pm
But not necessarily. I have now extensively renovated a 1550s farmhouse and a 1480s farmhouse turned butchery turned labourers cottage and have found only one clay pipe in all my unearthing
The wealth of your original occupants might be the key. Kearn suggests his were fairly wealthy if the construction standards are anything to go by.

livias
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Re: Georgian Hot Tub Time Machine??! what is this...

Post by livias » Fri 18th Aug, 2017 4:37 pm

That could be true for the previous house but I am not entirely convinced because my current house was the centre of a farm cum market garden on the Great North Road. It was built c 1550 with one corner of particularly bling status which was definitely meant to be seen by travellers as they crested a hill.The Great North road was diverted in 1820 and the house is now in a backwater but from 1550 to 1820 it was perfectly placed for the sale of ale, apples (it had a big orchard) and bedfordshire clangers to passing travellers so I was surprised that no clay pipes at all were found in the renovation.

Socksitis
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Re: Georgian Hot Tub Time Machine??! what is this...

Post by Socksitis » Sat 19th Aug, 2017 6:08 am

My immediate, uneducated guess was that it was the base of a stair turret?

Kearn
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Re: Georgian Hot Tub Time Machine??! what is this...

Post by Kearn » Sat 19th Aug, 2017 8:11 am

Socksitis wrote:
Sat 19th Aug, 2017 6:08 am
My immediate, uneducated guess was that it was the base of a stair turret?
Interesting! But unfortunately not, although the size would've worked if you think of an old stone spiral in a church tower. It wouldn't have gone anywhere in this room though! It's a single storey room, albeit about 3.5m from original floor to original ceiling. And the roof is older than this structure...

Kearn
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Re: Georgian Hot Tub Time Machine??! what is this...

Post by Kearn » Thu 24th Aug, 2017 8:30 am

livias wrote:
Fri 18th Aug, 2017 7:55 am
Still keen on the cockfighting pit idea. Lots of old clay pipes would fit with it being a social space. Also having no plaster finish on the inside but plaster on the outside to help bind the wall together
Here is the selection of pipes found, lots of stems beyond these but only the 6 or so almost complete bowls. I haven't had them properly dated yet, but some initial research would indicate they span across the 1600s based on style and design. Which is less of a concentration of pipes really. In fact a very low rate across a century! Maybe they were careful!!!

I am not sure that these have any relation to the round structure, mainly because the bricks are Georgian, so probably mid-1700s onwards. Which throws out the social connection between the two.
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Kearn
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Re: Georgian Hot Tub Time Machine??! what is this...

Post by Kearn » Thu 24th Aug, 2017 8:35 am

Other finds...

A selection of bones, yet to be identified, although part of a hip joint, potential pieces of large jaw, with a couple of teeth fragments still in place, sizeable rib pieces, and other leg bones.
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What may be another clue, supportive of the cockfighting pit, is what could be a rooster talon/spur next to the small vertebrae...
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Plus we have found a selection of styles and types of pottery, many differing glazes, what looks like a small square profile stone turning handle with some discolouration to one end, and three sea shells!
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Owain
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Re: Georgian Hot Tub Time Machine??! what is this...

Post by Owain » Thu 24th Aug, 2017 8:44 am

Kearn wrote:
Thu 17th Aug, 2017 4:19 pm
I did wonder about an ancient, small person Fight Club...!
A playpen for the children or a very early form of hot tub?

Some form of home dyeing or bleaching process?

Kearn
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Re: Georgian Hot Tub Time Machine??! what is this...

Post by Kearn » Thu 24th Aug, 2017 8:54 am

Owain wrote:
Thu 24th Aug, 2017 8:44 am
A playpen for the children or a very early form of hot tub?

Some form of home dyeing or bleaching process?
there is no trace of any internal finish on the bricks/floor, so any liquid retention is unlikely. plus these bricks would've been expensive so the fact that the foundations sit deep implies something of substantial weight and importance on top.

Abi Cott
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Re: Georgian Hot Tub Time Machine??! what is this...

Post by Abi Cott » Thu 24th Aug, 2017 11:34 am

Some of the long bones have been deliberately split to access the marrow. That would indicate human food rather than predation by another animal or accidental death.

Kearn
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Re: Georgian Hot Tub Time Machine??! what is this...

Post by Kearn » Tue 20th Feb, 2018 5:38 pm

Abi Cott wrote:
Thu 24th Aug, 2017 11:34 am
Some of the long bones have been deliberately split to access the marrow. That would indicate human food rather than predation by another animal or accidental death.
indeed and what look likely to be rabbit bones, all conveniently thrown just around the side of the inglenook - so pretty sure these are human food related.

Kearn
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Re: Georgian Hot Tub Time Machine??! what is this...

Post by Kearn » Tue 20th Feb, 2018 7:07 pm

by way of a teaser update... we are finally getting round to sorting this room!! images to follow.

we never got much closer to understanding what the circular / oval structural foundations could have been for - I am still trying to understand the occupation of the earliest known tenant in the early to mid-1700s as this largely ties with the timeline of the structure and the grand brick extension wing being added to our house and more importantly the fact that the widow had a lifelong rental hold on the house, so presumably had a valuable skill to provide to the estate, which I wonder if this structure would have been used for. I may get there yet... later tenants came and went and had no notable skills that would have related to this space.

the structure has been documented and recorded and left in situ with a limecrete floor over, so preserved if anyone in the future decides to dig down!

as we are underpinning the only old wall in this space (same age possibly as inglenook, so 1600s somewhere or quite possibly repurposed bricks as it makes no sense) I have found trace behind the single skin of more similar age (1700s) flint foundations and bricks as the unknown structure, which doesn't help much as they are on the other side of what appears to be an older wall and more annoyingly under what is now our kitchen in a 1980s extension, but would have originally been the front of the house into the garden and presumably outside...

the mystery may never be solved - the more we uncover, the more questions we find!! but that's all part of the fun... :D

brick pavers are going down and then we tidy room for a temporary pause to enjoy it, while we contemplate removing the false ceiling, and therefore rewiring and replumbing as both run in every direction across the false ceiling!! oh and the small detail of dismantling a redundant Victorian chimney stack which is crudely resting on the shoulder of our beautiful restored ignlenook indoors and butting against our stack above the roof line! but we are learning to work in manageable stages!!

MikeG
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Re: Georgian Hot Tub Time Machine??! what is this...

Post by MikeG » Wed 21st Feb, 2018 7:52 am

Foundations for an oast house, perhaps? I was going to suggest a kiln, too, but I doubt they would ever be so close to a dwelling.

Zebra
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Re: Georgian Hot Tub Time Machine??! what is this...

Post by Zebra » Wed 21st Feb, 2018 7:59 am

Sounds like amazing progress Kearn, and a sensible decision regarding the time machine.

Kearn
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Re: Georgian Hot Tub Time Machine??! what is this...

Post by Kearn » Wed 21st Feb, 2018 10:11 am

MikeG wrote:
Wed 21st Feb, 2018 7:52 am
Foundations for an oast house, perhaps? I was going to suggest a kiln, too, but I doubt they would ever be so close to a dwelling.
The size could make sense, but the location doesn't unfortunately. The roof structure above is older than the foundations contained in the space, and is pitched, but very high, single storey and pushing 4m from original floor level to ceiling which is just shy of the ridge. We believe this space to have originally have been an animal shelter. Plus there is no evidence now or in the records of the other associated buildings usually attached for storage and cooling of the hops. There certainly were various brewhouses and malthouses in the village, but going back to these maps at that point we were a pightle plus dwelling.

The idea of a kiln I'm less sure of again, due to the roof presence. These foundations seemingly relate to a structure intentionally built undercover.

Kearn
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Re: Georgian Hot Tub Time Machine??! what is this...

Post by Kearn » Wed 21st Feb, 2018 10:18 am

Zebra wrote:
Wed 21st Feb, 2018 7:59 am
Sounds like amazing progress Kearn, and a sensible decision regarding the time machine.
Thanks! Although it doesn't feel like it as the plan had been to get the pavers down in autumn last year!! Since august we have just had the limecrete sub floor! :roll: anyway, onwards and upwards - quite literally once we decide to embark on the ceiling and stack removal!

Definitely looking forward to this room being finished at least from ground level plus c.2m! It may well become my favourite source, as looking at the rear of the Inglenook is stunning!

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