Mortgage survey

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westlancaster
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon 24th Aug, 2020 10:05 am

Mortgage survey

Post by westlancaster » Wed 26th Aug, 2020 10:17 am

Hi All,

I’m a newbie here and in the process of purchasing our first listed property (grade II). We were always planning to get a detailed RICS listed building survey but naturally there is a backlog and we can’t get ours until mid September.

Meanwhile, the mortgage company has done their ‘survey’ and identified cracks internally and in the render of the stone/rendered cottage. They have returned a value of £0 pending a FRICS or structural survey. Our surveyor has said this is quite normal and not to worry as the likelihood is that the cracks are historic or render cracks are likely to be due to cement render being used on a ‘naturally moving’ property.

Has anybody else experienced this type of thing and should I be worried?

Willow&water
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun 30th Aug, 2020 1:18 am

Re: Mortgage survey

Post by Willow&water » Sun 30th Aug, 2020 10:31 am

I am watching this with interest as we have had a similar mortgage valuation but we are already in possession of the RICS survey. We have concluded that we will need to rebuild an entire annexe and roof (The interesting old building is fine it is the 1980s asbestos roof extension which is failing from subsidence and perished asbestos). We’re not sure what to expect in terms of agreement to release money by the bank. The additional twist in the tail for us is that the house is on a floodplain

RBailey
Posts: 86
Joined: Thu 1st Aug, 2019 7:25 am
Location: Rutland

Re: Mortgage survey

Post by RBailey » Tue 1st Sep, 2020 8:02 am

Firstly Welcome.

It is difficult to know without specifics, however, it does sound fairly "normal".

Old buildings move and hence the cracks. I would imagine the mortgage value was an compulsory result. (Form tick box, "if crack = yes then value =0"

A rule of thumb I once heard was it structurally worrying if you could fit you hand in the crack.

(Lime which is what is traditionally used and is much better for the period properties as it breaths also has the advantage of moving and not cracking / healing. If cement render was used previously then it will also be more prone to cracking.)

Fingers crossed for the RICS survey.

Cheers,
Richard B.

westlancaster
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon 24th Aug, 2020 10:05 am

Re: Mortgage survey

Post by westlancaster » Tue 1st Sep, 2020 9:40 am

Thank you both for your replies.

@willow&water
It is frustrating that some of those later additions to a house, that become listed just because they were part of the property when the listing was originally made, are the bit that causes a problem. I guess the challenge with subsidence is that even if you deem underpinning as something you'd be willing to do, you actually need the money to be able to do it so if it is held back by the mortgage company, I can see the challenge.

@Richard B.
Thank you for your comments. I think I am 80% certain that we will be ok. I think I am just clutching at straws as we have to wait such a long time for our RICS survey so it is heartening to learn that the mortgage survey is often a bottleneck. I guess you just look everywhere for reassurance. My concern is that they added a third storey to a cottage in the early 20th century and the age of the original cottage (1600s) will certainly mean there are no footings. I will post some pictures...

westlancaster
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon 24th Aug, 2020 10:05 am

Re: Mortgage survey

Post by westlancaster » Tue 1st Sep, 2020 9:52 am

Hopefully these upload ok. I think this is just old brittle cement render cracking because of the natural movements of an old cottage. If you place your hand in the crack, it is sodden so presumably water gets behind, it freezes and 'blows' the render, allowing more water in and so forth. This, and some small cracks is the reason the mortgage company want further information. I believe that all I will need is to remove the render, leave to dry for a week or so and then apply a lime render.
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Blueyes
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon 20th Jul, 2020 6:56 pm

Re: Mortgage survey

Post by Blueyes » Thu 3rd Sep, 2020 7:31 am

@westlancaster We had exactly the same thing with Natwest as the lender returning value as £0 for 'damp'. As a compromise they wanted £5k of chemical injection works before the sale was agreed recommended by a PCA 'damp and timber' surveyor, crazy. We came close to losing the house becasuse of Natwests attitude but luckliy our mortgage broker made some calls and found a lender (Nationwide) to lend. I dont think Nationwide even sent out a surveyor and the mortgage was all good.

If the banks is nervous, I highly reccommend looking at other lenders that may be more flexible or getting a mortgage broker if you have not already got one. I am self employed and we had to pay a little more points on the 5 year fix than we had originally planned on (and £350 Natwest Fee) but we came very close to losing the original sale. I appealed the Natwest decision but they didnt want to know, terrible customer service throughout and they ignored our own RICS survery and an informal professional survey from a friend working at English Heritage.

As for what your willing to get into, only you can decide how much you love the house, we have found everything costs more than expected but no regrets! Good luck.

Monty
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon 16th Sep, 2019 7:14 am

Re: Mortgage survey

Post by Monty » Thu 3rd Sep, 2020 8:19 am

That sounds very familiar. We bought our 'forever home' precisely this time last year, but the process leading up to the purchase was made very difficult because we needed a small mortgage. We went through the process with Natwest but they returned a value of £0 because of damp, pending a survey by a PCA damp and timber specialist, and the report said that will probably need a damp proof course - this despite the fact that their surveyor was RICS qualified. The small areas of damp was caused by external cement pointing of the stone walls, gypsum and cement plaster and plastic paints in the downstairs rooms and my plan is to remove all of this anyhow and replace with lime.

After numerous frustrating phone calls and letters, we eventually appealed on the basis that a PCA damp and timber specialist would not be impartial and that they would have a vested interest in selling a product. I also offered to get an independent survey by a RICS surveyor who specialised in historic properties, but all to no avail as they were not a PCA specialist! At this point we were very close to loosing our dream home so in desperation we approached Barclays for a mortgage (not quite so good a deal as Natwest at the time) and to cut the story short, they sent their surveyor (also RICS) out for a valuation survey and mortgage was approved!

So my advice will always now be to look elsewhere for a mortgage if one lender is inflexible enough to accurately assess a non-standard, in modern terms, building.

Good luck!

westlancaster
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon 24th Aug, 2020 10:05 am

Re: Mortgage survey

Post by westlancaster » Fri 4th Sep, 2020 11:24 am

Thank you all for your replies. I will certainly take this all on board. I believe the structural piece should all be covered by the RICS survey but the damp and timber piece will need to be done by commercial companies. Has anybody received issues with conservation to getting a damp course injected? My concern is that the mortgage company could demand one thing but conservation could prevent that from happening. My understanding is that woodworm treatments and damp course injecting is frowned upon for listed buildings.

I will contact my mortgage broker to see if we could approach other lenders if the RICS survey isn't enough to secure the funds from TSB.

a twig
Posts: 607
Joined: Sun 6th Oct, 2013 10:18 pm

Re: Mortgage survey

Post by a twig » Fri 4th Sep, 2020 5:06 pm

Similar story to us, problems with Nationwide, Barclays all whizzed straight through. Things may have changed, your mileage may vary etc though. Easiest one I ever got was Northern Rock... :D

Willow&water
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun 30th Aug, 2020 1:18 am

Re: Mortgage survey

Post by Willow&water » Mon 7th Sep, 2020 1:15 pm

So Halifax have returned the verdict of "unmortgageable"

"Good afternoon Thank you for sending the structural report for the above property. The conclusions of the report reinforce my opinion that there are several substantial defects that would cost a considerable sum to repair particularly as a grade II listed property. The inspection for the report was carried out almost a year ago and during that time there have been no evident attempts to protect the property from further deterioration. I regret that I feel that this property is unmortgageable in its current condition."

Thankfully our broker is good, as we can buy for cash and have a little capital, our loan to value is favourable and it appears we can get a bridging loan - however, this will put us under considerable pressure to refinance 12 months from work starting, but perhaps a useful option to know about?

Have we gone down a ferocious rabbit hole ? With VAT, our dreams of an Air source heat pump have become 10,000 more expensive this morning as we need to upgrade the transformer; We don't know the cost for the mechanism to make our river sourced water potable; The chimney breast seems to be flying freehold over the lane without titleholder; said same lane needs to be dug up for the french drain; and, we still don't know how the flood water pump works and the deathwatch beetle are partying with the wasps and rats!!!!

RBailey
Posts: 86
Joined: Thu 1st Aug, 2019 7:25 am
Location: Rutland

Re: Mortgage survey

Post by RBailey » Tue 8th Sep, 2020 8:31 am

Willow&water wrote:
Mon 7th Sep, 2020 1:15 pm
Have we gone down a ferocious rabbit hole ? With VAT, our dreams of an Air source heat pump have become 10,000 more expensive this morning as we need to upgrade the transformer; We don't know the cost for the mechanism to make our river sourced water potable; The chimney breast seems to be flying freehold over the lane without titleholder; said same lane needs to be dug up for the french drain; and, we still don't know how the flood water pump works and the deathwatch beetle are partying with the wasps and rats!!!!

Sounds like a fascinating property, don't worry its not a rabbit hole, more an insane asylum, but we are all mad here :lol:

Mid September is nearly here so at least you should get your survey going soon. One tip on here recently was to try and accompany the surveyor (in a nice, not in their face way) and they will hopefully impart lots of informal advise, "this is a real problem", "this will cost a lot", "I have to mention this but it is good for another 10 years" etc..

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