200 year old Period Property - Wet walls.

[Ruairi]

I am in the process of purchasing a period property but have one main reservation. When I visited the property recently to have another look at its condition there is overwhelming signs of damp and some walls were soaking wet to the touch. Obviously there has been a recent storm and the building has not been lived in for around 8 years. I am awaiting a drone survey of the chimneys and roof but was hoping someone may have an insight, to whether or not, this would be expected.
The property is circa 1770. It has 4 chimneys but I believe only 2 are connected to a fireplace below. Any advice or general opinions appreciated.
My current approach to phase 1 is looking like the following;
1. Clear ivy and area surrounding house.
2. Inspect roof - fix/replace
3. Inspect chimneys - fix
4. Clear/fix gutters.
4. Remove exterior render on one wall - inspect/fix/evaluate - apply findings ti reminder of property.
5. Dig around exterior of house, install drainage to direct run off past property into field.

Phase 2 - decide if phase 2 onwards can be entertained.

 

[Kearn]

Promote #5 - hat and boots - get the roof, rainwater goods, and ground levels/drainage in order first.

Internal wetness could be rain driven in, could also be humid air and moisture condensing on cold surfaces.

Looks like ground levels are way too high based on the relative window height. External render could will be cement based with plastic paint.

What’s the age/building fabric, aside from ivy?

Chimneys aren’t really a priority, except to enable airflow for ventilation and if you can get them heated all the better.

Yes, I’d expect a house neglected for almost a decade to be showing some signs of complaint…

 

[Lacan07]

Kearn has pretty much summed it up, deal with any possible causes of damp first (and personally for me that would include butchering all that ivy). Then you can take a closer look at the wet walls.

If you've got lots of money then go for it. It looks lovely, or about as lovely as a money pit can look.

 

[Flyfisher]

I second both the above replies, especially the last sentence of each one!

 

[Cubist]

A slight disagreement with @Kearn here as I would put a close inspection of the root structure of all that ivy at the top of my list - and before I bought the place. Ivy is notorious for its willingness and ability to penetrate and excavate the mortar in walls to destroy the structural integrity. However, it is also very capable of disrupting the foundations of a structure by undermining these with huge root networks - I once found one here that was over 12inches in diameter.

 

[Kearn]

A slight disagreement with @Kearn here as I would put a close inspection of the root structure of all that ivy at the top of my list - and before I bought the place. Ivy is notorious for its willingness and ability to penetrate and excavate the mortar in walls to destroy the structural integrity. However, it is also very capable of disrupting the foundations of a structure by undermining these with huge root networks - I once found one here that was over 12inches in diameter.

Ah, the ivy wasn’t being relegated, just the external levels and drainage bumped.

I already alluded to the now structural importance of the ivy as part of the building fabric…

In seriousness though, as you say with sizeable tendrils and roots, they remove and take the place of the mortar which means care is required when removing it…

 

[Ruairi]

Hi,

Thank you for the replies. They are the confirmation I needed.
I have a drone inspecting the roof and chimneys next week. I can't touch the ivy (which will all go) until purchase.
I'm competent on a digger so can easily clear everything and reduce the ground level around the house buy a good 400-600mm.

I have a budget approx 200k, with a 18 mth to 2 year timeframe. I have 20 years experience in various areas of construction but not house building per se. I do have alot of skills which I can apply to the project. (Mainly walling, carpentry, tiling).
I will install all electrical cabling and plumbing on a first fix level after "gutting" the building (where necessary) but will bring in qualified tradesmen for 2nd/3rd fixed work and signing it all off.

I guess my only concern is getting the property watertight, dry and structurally sound using no more than 50% of budget.

The roof inspection may be the deciding factor.

Thanks again for feedback. Barring any bad news on roof I will proceed and no doubt need further guidance on some aspects.

R

 

[Ruairi]

Photo of rear

 

[Kearn]

View attachment 15469
Photo of rear

I like it more…!

That’s a lot of what looks like concrete render to come off and let the old girl sigh… I forget if it is listed / conservation area? That would be a decision point for me… possibly worth a CO conversation, may need a paid for pre app to gauge their response on freeing the outside.

 

[a twig]

One slim ray of hope for you, given your location there’s a chance that render might be lime, I’ve friends in farmhouses in that part of the world with lime rendered walls that are very similar in colour and appearance

 

[Ruairi]

I like it more…!

That’s a lot of what looks like concrete render to come off and let the old girl sigh… I forget if it is listed / conservation area? That would be a decision point for me… possibly worth a CO conversation, may need a paid for pre app to gauge their response on freeing the outside.

Hi,

It is listed but we are confident due to the condition and current alterations (doors and windows being upvc for some reason) we will have a positive response for what we hope to achieve. We are looking to restore the period features and then adjust the layout slightly. We've had positive feedback so far.

Thanks for the input.
Ruairi

 

[Ruairi]

One slim ray of hope for you, given your location there’s a chance that render might be lime, I’ve friends in farmhouses in that part of the world with lime rendered walls that are very similar in colour and appearance

Hi,

Yes that is a good point. I will make sure that is confirmed either way. Fingers crossed.... I am leaning/hoping towards Lime

Thanks
Ruairi

 

[Lacan07]

Hi,

Thank you for the replies. They are the confirmation I needed.
I have a drone inspecting the roof and chimneys next week. I can't touch the ivy (which will all go) until purchase.
I'm competent on a digger so can easily clear everything and reduce the ground level around the house buy a good 400-600mm.

I have a budget approx 200k, with a 18 mth to 2 year timeframe. I have 20 years experience in various areas of construction but not house building per se. I do have alot of skills which I can apply to the project. (Mainly walling, carpentry, tiling).
I will install all electrical cabling and plumbing on a first fix level after "gutting" the building (where necessary) but will bring in qualified tradesmen for 2nd/3rd fixed work and signing it all off.

I guess my only concern is getting the property watertight, dry and structurally sound using no more than 50% of budget.

The roof inspection may be the deciding factor.

Thanks again for feedback. Barring any bad news on roof I will proceed and no doubt need further guidance on some aspects.

R

That sounds like a plan.

As you say in terms of getting the building dry within budget the roof will be the major factor here, all other requirements for protecting the house against damp are within reach of the competent DIYer, even plastering.

Make sure you find an electrician willing to allow you to first fix before you start, they're not usually keen to sign it off under those circumstances.

And bear in mind if you do end up taking on the majority of the work that 18 months to 2 years could easily double.

 

[Flyfisher]

. . . Double? . . . . DOUBLE?

If only (sigh)

 

[Ruairi]

That sounds like a plan.

As you say in terms of getting the building dry within budget the roof will be the major factor here, all other requirements for protecting the house against damp are within reach of the competent DIYer, even plastering.

Make sure you find an electrician willing to allow you to first fix before you start, they're not usually keen to sign it off under those circumstances.

And bear in mind if you do end up taking on the majority of the work that 18 months to 2 years could easily double.

Hi,

Yes, I have an electrician happy to do that. Also a plumber. I would be taking on the work myself but do have a network of skilled tradesmen to assist at certain times. I also have additional pairs of hands for the unskilled, time consuming elements. My downfall is the experience and knowledge of period properties. Especially regarding damp solutions for the solid walls and the inital phase of work.
I have done the first draft of drawings and will keep to a rigid schedule. I have project managed for 15 years - but understand this property could throw up some unknowns specific to its age.

I guess you could say I'm doing a thorough risk assessment to avoid surprises. The spreadsheet of time/costs is considerable.

Many thanks for your help.

R

 

[Flyfisher]

My downfall is the experience and knowledge of period properties. Especially regarding damp solutions for the solid walls and the inital phase of work.

It sounds as if you're well prepared and are going in with eyes open, which is all good.

However, regarding the damp issue, the house has clearly been neglected for many years so it would be surprising if it wasn't showing signs of damp, especiallly if the roof has failed in places, but that doesn;t automatically mean it is inherently damp and needs lots of remedial damp-proffing work. Fix the roof and guttering, sort out any ground level issues, get some heating inside and it's possible that any current damp will disappear of its own accord. This is one reason why it's generally recommended to live in a period property for a while before deciding to pull it to bits and/or add lots of 'remedial' solutions.

Our house had many damp problems when I took it on, to the extent that some ceilings had fallen through in places, but I've not really done any 'damp-proofing' work to it, except fix the roof and flashings, make the guttering work properly and sort the surface drainage - none of which I would actually call 'damp-proofing' work as such. Sure, it took a while for things to settle down but we're living in it now and there are no noticeable damp problems. Houses don't like to be empty and if they've suffered years of neglect it seems unlikely that the effects can be reversed in a few months. Even after fixing a long-term leak, a wall might be saturated and require quite some time to properly dry out. A widely used rule of thumb in these here parts is one month per inch of thickness (variable depending on the wall construction of course), so fix the roof above a 12-inch thick solid wall and it might be a whole year before it dries out properly and during that time it will still be 'damp' before it finds its equilibrium with its new environment.

In fact, I've often wondered how many damp-proofing works have been unnecessary but get credit for working even though it's actually a result of something else being fixed.

 

[Kearn]

In fact, I've often wondered how many damp-proofing works have been unnecessary but get credit for working even though it's actually a result of something else being fixed.

it’s nothing short of criminal - the little racket between RICS, the PCA a few high street lenders and questionable agents.

Trump up some ‘evidence of rising damp / active beetle / rot…’ from the guy with a clipboard on site for 15 mins. Withhold funds until the PCA has done a ‘Damp and timber assessment’ which they are not qualified to do, but this is just a veil for recommending £1000s of useless, damaging, criminal (if listed) and often irreversible damage to a building.

Then, lo and behold, all seems good, as the new plaster and tanking isn’t damp on the surface immediately. Within 5+ years, the signs start to show. They come back and call in their insurance to happily re-do under warranty.

 

[Lacan07]

Hi,

My downfall is the experience and knowledge of period properties. Especially regarding damp solutions for the solid walls and the inital phase of work.
I have done the first draft of drawings and will keep to a rigid schedule. I have project managed for 15 years - but understand this property could throw up some unknowns specific to its age.

R

Don't worry about that, everything you need to know about damp solutions and solid walls you can get from us.