A paint problem

[Moo]

Twelve years ago we innocently painted our walls with emulsion paint. After about five years it started flaking, and our 'traffic areas' in particular now look as though they've caught some awful disease and we've had to embark on some major redecoration.

The dark chocolate brown flat oil* on the woodwork in the hall and on the top floor has been covered with an off-white (Fired Earth's Bianco), which I really like, and I'm ready to start preparing the walls for painting. This is going to result in a sort of patchwork of surfaces (lime, gypsum, emulsion) that will need a special sort of paint.
Earlier threads here seemed to have solved the problem - Earthborn Claypaint will be hardwearing and will work on all the surfaces, so that's what I'm going for.

However (there's always a 'however', isn't there?) their colour range is terribly limited; I want a sort of yellowy colour that will sit happily alongside the off-white paintwork but all they have to offer is subtle nearly-whites or rather emphatic colours, with nothing in between.

So I seem to have several options:

Find a different make of paint?
If so, what?
Get some claypaint and have it tinted (would Thorns be able to squirt some of their Dulux colourants into claypaint?)?
Give up the whole idea of paint, and use wallpaper instead?

HELP !!!


*a colour that I heartily recommend to anyone whose woodwork isn't in pristine condition - it hides a multitude of sins!

 

[Feltwell]

Can't help on the colours Moo, but if you hung lining paper first not only would you get a better finish but you'd then have a uniform surface to paint whatever breathable paint you wanted on to. As you've got a patchwork of surfaces at the moment I can't help but think that may well show through if you just paint straight onto it, and that lining paper is required to get a decent finish anyway.

This stuff is expensive but very good, you paste the wall not the paper. I seem to remember someone else on here (Pford?) endorsed it as well if you do a search.

http://www.decoratingdirect.co.uk/viewprod/m/MAVNWLPV/

Cheaper but slower to put up is ordinary 1200 grade lining paper.

 

[Penners]

a sort of patchwork of surfaces (lime, gypsum, emulsion) that will need a special sort of paint.

Feltwell's idea of lining paper is a good one, but if your hallway paint project is going to include the stairs and landing too, then I'm not sure there's enough lining paper in the world... (or anyone prepared to risk hanging it at those altitudes).

I wonder whether you can be certain beforehand that any specific paint will successfully cover all of those surfaces. I think I would be investing in several sorts of tester pots and trying them out on the patchwork, before making a final decision

 

[JoceAndChris]

Lining paper could be very tricky in Moo's amazing hallway, not a job I'd fancy. I also think undulations and blemishes in Georgian plaster have infinite charm.

Moo- I agree the Earthborn colour range is disappointing to say the least. Casein distemper goes over all finishes, after a light sand, and is much more hardwearing and wipeable than soft distemper. (yes it will come off on your wet cloth but that can be used to blend out scuffs). Unless your walls are wet, it won't brush off on clothes.

I've used it on my little loo over modern anti mould emuslion and walls that are lime plaster, and bits that have been skimmed with gypsum. The colour isn't nice but the finish is even (ignore the damp patch on the left):

http://s636.photobucket.com/albums/uu87/joceneedham/?action=view&current=Smallbathroomdifficulties003.jpg

Rose of Jericho can give you more advice. Their range of ochres looks superb on the charts -there are 6 or 7 charts on that site, look at Ochre, Saffron, Straw. If a bit comes out slightly different because of the surface underneath, I think that will just be part of the character of your house if you see what I mean- is it necessary to have flat unifomity?

If you do use Rose of Jericho make sure you pay the £13.50 for the tester (!!) I didn't and that's why I've got that awful green above - the colour they sent me has not matched their hand-painted chart. In their defense, they warned me it might not and I said that it would be OK. :x

The Rose of Jericho testers are so expensive I'm going back to Farrow and Ball, whose colours are the best in my opinion. They do most of them in Casein Distemper, you'd just need to order it in to your local stockist. I'm going for "Hay " for the passageway here, with off-white woodwork. Once again it will be going over a right old hotch potch of surfaces.

http://www.farrow-ball.com/hay/colours//fcp-product/100037

 

[Moo]

I must say that I'm tempted by the idea of lining paper (and that's one job I'd leave to the professionals, Penners!).

And Hay looks just the job as far as colour is concerned; I've been avoiding F&B up till now because I'd assumed that they don't do a breathable paint (I do wish that Fired Earth did one, because they're only a few steps down the road, and I'm both lazy and impatient).

Tomorrow morning I shall get in the car and drive out to Paints&Papers and invest in yet more tester pots.

xxx


On a more positive note -
I've been using one of those plastic paint guard thingies and been very pleased with it. As previously advised, it's important to slide it along as you go from one end of the skirting to another.
And, I impulse-bought a set of Dulux brushes the other day and have been very impressed with them. Minimal brush-strokes, a useful metal thing on the end of the handle for opening paint tins, and one of the brushes is a sort of wedge shape that's brilliant for cutting into corners.

 

[Moo]

Joce - browsing through the F&B website I've come across Dayroom Yellow. Do you think it might be too bright?

 

[Feltwell]

I must say that I'm tempted by the idea of lining paper (and that's one job I'd leave to the professionals, Penners!).

Who may well choose to hang it horizontally. Looks fiendishly difficult to me, but I'm assured by a professional decorator that it's easy once you get the knack!

 

[JoceAndChris]

If you are going to have lining paper over the whole thing Moo is breathable paint necessary? You might be able to save some pennies there.

I'm the wrong person to ask if a yellow is too bright as I love yellows, all of them, more than any other colour. I find them very cheery and easy to live with and they're Regency too.

Some people will associate bright Dayroom Yellow with the 80s but you can enlighten them by saying the colour was popular in the 1820s.

"Hay" would be more mature, maybe look more antiquey. But I think both would work well. I'll try to find some pics.

 

[Moo]

Once upon a time I tried horizontal paper-hanging but discovered that, together with papering ceilings, it came near the top of the list of Things I Will Never Be Able To Do.

But we've had a summit meeting and decided that we're going to call in the pros for the whole caboodle - making good all the bits above head height, and all the papering and painting. Tomorrow I'm going to get the name of the v. expert-looking decorator who did 38 St Giles St* and ask him round for a quote. I suspect it may put me out of action for a period while I get over the shock. I'll let you know which way round he hangs lining paper.

Another happy discovery, though. There's a F&B stockist a short walk from here, so the car can stay put and I'll invest in sample pots of Hay, Dayroom Yellow, and a couple of in-betweeners.

Re the breathability issue - I like the idea of lining paper obviating the need for special paint, but have a nasty suspicion that it ain't so easy as that. What's the concensus on that particular issue?



*That's the wonderful B&B that has five gold stars and won an episode of "Four in a Bed" on Channel 4 in October. You can still catch it on U-Tube.

 

[lou]

Probably too late but there are some stockists of Earthborn that can mix a much wider range of colours than their standard paint chart. I went to Vanessa Cooper in Hereford who was extremely helpful and even has her own range of colours. Might be worth ringing some stockists near you.

 

[Feltwell]

Re the breathability issue - I like the idea of lining paper obviating the need for special paint, but have a nasty suspicion that it ain't so easy as that. What's the concensus on that particular issue?

I was thinking that it not so much obviates the need for special paint, more that it increases your potential choice of special paint!

Walls should still be breathable with lining paper on, and the fact it's a uniform surface means that if you have a paint that doesn't like one of the underlying surfaces it won't be a problem, plus you'll have a consistent texture and it helps hide some of the less than perfect plaster, especially where there are joints.

As to does the paint need to be breathable - well, on interior walls so long as you're not trying to dry them out from something like a previous leak then no, but you mention the current emulsion paint is flaking - do you know why? Have you exterior and interior walls to paint or are they all interior?

 

[Feltwell]

Probably too late but there are some stockists of Earthborn that can mix a much wider range of colours than their standard paint chart. I went to Vanessa Cooper in Hereford who was extremely helpful and even has her own range of colours. Might be worth ringing some stockists near you.

I had a feeling they did mixing, as I'd looked once before on their website but no one anywhere near me offered this. Moo, better news for you, I've just looked on their website and apparently this stockist does tinting:-


Paint & Paper
11 Hellesdon Hall Industrial Park
Norwich
Norfolk
NR6 5DR

Contact: Stephen Dix

Phone: 01603 400777

Email: enquiries@paint-paper.co.uk

Website: http://www.paint-paper.co.uk

 

[vicky whitworth]

I really like Earthborn Claypoint. It's done us well in terms of consolidating rough surfaces - old paint, old plaster, modern plaster and rubble stone walls.
Vanilla is a pale hay sort of colour. It's a dreadful name but I like the colour. I have it in the hayloft :lol:

 

[JoceAndChris]

My feeling is that if there's any evidence of damp then paint ought to be breathable. Flaking, crumbling paint could be evidence of damp? But if the wall is dry as a bone and there aren't any problems then I can't see the point of fretting over breathable finishes. Just choose the one you like. My motivation for choosing distemper finishes here is because I like the look of the very slighty uneven, mottled finish - especially in the Soft Distemper. However Soft Distemper is no good for a high usage area, whereas Casein is.

Moo- another thought for your hallway is the stone block paper which is so authentic for the period. There's one in Cole and Son Foundation range (much nicer in reality than it looks here):

http://designerwallpapers.co.uk/cole-and-son/foundation/stone-block/92-6031

and also this one in this fancy London place:

http://www.ornamenta.co.uk/site/html/sub_wpapers/hp_ashlar.asp

To cut the cost you could wallpaper up to dado? And paint above.
I'm sure wallpaper is breathable to an extent.

These pics were just taken with the mobile phone and I'm sure their usefulness is limited but I think the colours are corresponding with Dayroom yellow in the first pic, Citron in the second and Hay in the third (look how those people stole my Print room!). I've no idea what paints they really are, but they look close to those colours as I sit here and compare them with the charts.

A very good idea to call in the professionals, given the scale.

 

[biffvernon]

I want a sort of yellowy colour that will sit happily alongside the off-white paintwork but all they have to offer is subtle nearly-whites or rather emphatic colours, with nothing in between.

Easy. Buy a can of Subtle Nearly-White and a can of Rather Emphatic. Pour contents of both can into a clean bucket and mix thoroughly.
Result: In Between paint.

Remember the old masters like Vermeer only used about half a dozen pigments. The rest is done in proportions.

The alternative method is to buy white paint and a large tub of yellow ochre powdered pigment. Get mixing. Or just dig up some clay-rich soil and chuck that in. It works. Really.

When dealing with period properties always consider what period tradesmen did. They had to make their own paint.

 

[jocelyn plummer]

Moo, when will you ever stop? You quite put me to shame!!!

Anyway, in a couple of houses I used 1200 ml lining paper from decorating direct, very good quality and easy to use. At the time cost was no object so I used R of J distemper over the top because I wanted that lovely soft glow distemper gives, and actually, I'd really rather not use some other paint finishes anyway to ensure whatever breathability is possible.

To keep costs down, here in this little artisan house I rummaged through my fabric samples and happened across a fabric swatch in the exact shade I wanted. Tootled along to Brewers who scanned it and mixed the colour in their Albany range. £20 for 2 and half ltrs, lovely finish and easy to use. Enthused, I took along a piece of soap in a gorgeous lavender shade, again, scan and mix, most successful!! If you have a Brewers near you try them out!

I am so pleased to hear that you will , at least, find 'a man who can' to help. I'm afraid I will only do what I know I can comfortably reach these days! I really cannot think how I managed all the rooms at Foxgloves, stripped, re lined and painted the lot, except the drawing room which I wanted to look really professional.I used 3 dozen rolls of lining paper and many ltrs of paint!!

Good Luck, !!
Joss xxxx

 

[Moo]

Dearest Joss and Joce -
Between you, you've really set my mind at rest!
There's a branch of Brewers quite near here so that's where I'll go to buy the paint. However, in the interests of speed I'll trot round to the F&B stockist this morning, invest in an armful of sample pots, and use them to choose my colour.
Then I'll get in the car (ugh!) and see if Brewers can tint claypaint for me.

And, although I totally agree with you about mixing my own colours, Biff, the thought of what would be involved makes me want to lie down in a darkened room with damp towels applied to my forehead.
Twenty years ago, perhaps I'd have attempted it, but now ......

 

[Moo]

PS
Any further thoughts/advice about what lining paper to use? That Vario-plus stuff looks most impressive, but there's no clue on their website about breathability.


PPS
Those links to the stone-effect wallpapers were very inspiring, Joce, but unfortunately I'd have to use the hand-blocked one (the ceiling height in the front hall would necessitate the larger scale) and at £225 a roll it's just a tad too expensive.

 

[Nigel Watts]

In my hall I used 1400 grade lining paper, but that was because I wanted to hide lots of imperfections. Paper stuck to plaster with wallpaper paste will be breathable unless the paper is vinyl coated, which lining papers wont be.

I have been using dark red and a pinky red vinyl emulsion in my hall and on my stairs, both from Fired Earth. The colours are fine but I am not very happy with the surface finish. For dark colours with the light at an acute angle, such as you get when looking upstairs toward a landing window, any differences in surface sheen are very noticeable. I used brushes to apply the paint and found it next to impossible to get an even sheen. A roller might have been better, but I prefer to see brush strokes than the kind of orange peel effect you get from a roller. I also fear that the darker red dado will very susceptible to scuff marks, especially on the stairs. Flat oil would have been the right answer for the dado I think, perhaps with caesin distemper above.

F&B do a water based "dead flat" which I have been using on my woodwork. It is expensive though. It also needs a properly primed and undercoated base. I made the mistake of applying some directly to the cornice in a bathroom last year and it is already showing signs of peeling.

 

[Feltwell]

Not sure Brewers will tint claypaint Moo, as the distributor's website highlighted those stockists that tint and none of the Brewers are shown as offering tinting. Tinting outlets seems quite a rare beast so I'm not sure you'll have any other than the Paint & Paper one I highlighted.

If I remember rightly from dealing with ICI Dulux years ago, to tint and get a good colour match commercially not only do you need the right colourants but also the right base paint, it's not just a case of putting colourant into white paint.