Are these doors original?

[CatherineB]

(This is my second attempt to post this query, please ignore the first, although thankyou for the compliment on the colour scheme Penners!)

I've seen some pretty expert opinions on doors here, and I wonder what you think about these double doors?

They currently open from the back sitting room (originally a dining room, I assume) to the delightful extension in the current dining room. The opening would originally have been to the garden.

When our work is done, the opening will once again be to the outdoors, to a little courtyard. These current doors are not robust enough or insulating enough to be serviceable now as external doors, but what I'm wondering is whether they are original and therefore whether we should attempt to reuse in the house if possible. My first guess would be that the doors themselves are not, but the frame is.

Both our neighbours, where the equivalent doors still open to the outside, have already got replacement doors, but both predate the current owners, so I have no clues there.

What do you think, oh wise ones?


View attachment 1

 

[CatherineB]

(PS If anyone is planning some retro redecoration in a 1980's "Swedish sauna" theme, I'm happy to discuss a deal for the delightful but otherwise doomed pine-clad ceiling!)

 

[Nigel Watts]

If they are they may have been altered - when the extension was added perhaps?. The handle looks too low and the proportions are rather odd. The glazing bars gives them rather a 1930s look I feel. Does your neighbour have similar ones?

 

[CatherineB]

If they are they may have been altered - when the extension was added perhaps?. The handle looks too low and the proportions are rather odd. The glazing bars gives them rather a 1930s look I feel. Does your neighbour have similar ones?

That was exactly what I thought about the glazing bars, Nigel! I did wonder if there was originally a vertical glazing bar down the centre, but can't find any vestigial traces. The extension is 1980's.

The neighbours both have different (from this and from each other) doors. One is fairly simple, single pane at top and single solid panel below, and I don't think they have the top horizontal panel, which in our house is now bricked behind but I assume was originally glazed. The other neighbour I don't remember exactly, but it isn't the same as either.

What would be good to put there, to fit with the bay window, do you think?

 

[AMc]

These originally connected our house into the vinery but the opening was bricked up before we got the house (cement used and probably 1990s).
They may once have been exterior doors as the vinery was constructed in two distinct phases some time apart.
We guessed they were Victorian but given the size of the glazing they might be later - other than that we have no particular clue. The 1960's handles are certainly not original

They're now in the coach house as there was no way to reuse them in the house - I tried but they're massive.
I've thought idly about putting them on Salvo but haven't gone any further than that.

 

[Penners]

Given the apparent quality of your Edwardian property, Catherine, I rather doubt whether those doors are original. I entirely agree with Nigel's view that the glazing bars are poorly proportioned, with an unpleasant emphasis on the horizontal.

 

[chuckey]

Amc your doors are the same as mine, I am sure that they are late Victorian (1894). CatherineB, I am not sure about the moulding around the panel, it not very easy to see,but to my old eyes, it would seem to be a lot later -1940s?
Frank

 

[Moo]

I think it's not just the design of the doors that's wrong - it's the height as well.
Looked at from the room with the bay window, it seems that a chunk of the original door opening has been filled in, to make it fit below the ceiling in the next room.

 

[Flyfisher]

Yes, the size and dimensions of the mouldings seem to suggest a rather imposing original doorway - if they are original themselves of course.

I agree that the handles are too low, which makes the doors look a bit odd, but I would guess the doors were designed to match the line of the bay windowsill. Though, having said that, they might have been a better match if they also extended to the top of the original (?) opening. Hmm.

 

[CatherineB]

Thanks for your thoughts so far, everyone. I am going to get my measuring tape and magnifying glass out next time I'm round, to look at things like sill heights, matching architraves for the other door, etc.

 

[CatherineB]

Dear all

Long time, no posts...

We finally finished (well, it's never finished really, is it, but it's all done but for the fat lady singing...) our "project" and moved in three weeks ago tomorrow. I thought I would trade a little porn for a little question - porn first, of course, as is only polite!

Ages ago, I asked about these doors (new picture attached, since the original attachments seem to have disappeared). We were wondering what to do with them, and whether the glazing bars were original. After a peak around the back of another house, that has had no work done over the years, I established that the doors were original but the glazing bars were not. In fact, I think they've gone through two generations of alterations.

Well, we decided in the end to put them through a third generation. This is how they are now, with a glazing bar added down the centre, so that each pane is proportional to the panes in the upper sections of the sash windows in this room. The doors themselves have been moved - the original door is now the new internal door to the kitchen, and we had new external (and secure!) doors built to match:


There's nothing like a bit of reduce, reuse and recycle!

 

[Penners]

Much nicer, Catherine. Well done!

I hope you'll be very happy in your lovely new home.

 

[Feltwell]

Well done on getting to the "moving in" stage!

Echoing the top of the sashes with your doors looks like a good move. The picture is a bit confusing - so what was an internal door has now become an external one, and the old doors have been cut down, moved and now go through to a new extension? Or have I read the pictures completely wrong?

 

[CatherineB]

The door frame on the right of the picture was always there. We have reglazed the pane of glass at the top, which was blocked up by the previous extension. We have removed the actual doors from it, and put new doors into the existing frame. It was external originally, then internal into a dining room extension, and is now external again - with me so far?

The doorway on the left of the picture, into the kitchen, is completely new. It was built to fit the pre-existing doors, that were in the original door frame on the right, and which originally opened to the outside but were not secure or insulatory (word?!) enough to become external doors again, so were moved to the new doorway to be internal doors. Uh oh, have I lost you?

Istanbul was Constantinople, now it's Istanbul not Constantinople, the old doors were in the old doorway, now they're in the new doorway, and the new doors are in the old doorway - so if you've a date in the garden, she'll be waiting in the kitchen! :lol:

 

[Feltwell]

Thank you for clearing up all those unknowns, which were mostly known unknowns. I knew they were unknowns, but I'm not sure if there are any unknown unknowns that I should have known about. But now I think I know most of what I need to know, except of course if there are still unknown unknowns of which I am not aware of the need to know, or if indeed a need to know exists at all.

Great job Catherine, sounds like some fairly major works have gone on there, especially if you had a naff old extension to take down first.

 

[Penners]

My head hurts...

 

[JoceAndChris]

Dear all

Long time, no posts...

We finally finished (well, it's never finished really, is it, but it's all done but for the fat lady singing...) our "project" and moved in three weeks ago tomorrow. I thought I would trade a little porn for a little question - porn first, of course, as is only polite!

Lovely work Catherine. And all the best in your new home, I'm sure you must be thrilled to bits. And in before Christmas too!