Brick garden wall repairs

[overlander matt]

I'm interested to know if anyone here has had to repair long sections of tall (2m) garden brick walls. I vague recall someone (Malcolm perhaps?) looking into this recently.

The task seems a bit daunting - one of the walls running down the side of the property is more than 50m long and runs adjacent to a public footpath. It's not in good shape and our structural engineer advised a long section will most likely need to be rebuilt. We were given approval by the CO without any arguments too. There is a dogleg in the wall and it's at this point the wall is collapsing back into the garden where an ash tree is holding it up.



The photo shows the view from one corner - on the right of the corner the wall has been rebuilt but to the left and running down the footpath the lower section is badly eroded (probably a consequence of the garden being higher on the other side of the wall?) The top of this section is on the lean too.

I suspect the wall running down to just past the dogleg will need to be rebuilt rather than try to tackle smaller sections within this run. At more than 200 bricks per linear meter of wall this sounds fairly major work. I would estimate around 3000 bricks will need to be taken down.

As for repairs, I would probably take it down and pay someone to rebuild it. How long would a proper brickie, rather than general builder, take to build a wall like this? It's essentially long and straight. Any advice regarding this type of work would be much appreciated. I suspect this will be next year's main outdoor project!

Thanks.

Matt

 

[malcolm]

Yes that was me. I was delayed into the winter so haven't got very far: https://www.the-salutation.co.uk/blog/garden-wall-rebuild/

Mine is about 3000 bricks. I found the stretchers can be turned around to their one good face, but the headers had spalled too much at both ends and weren't long enough to be useful. I'm planning to buy 1500 new hand made bricks. I can't find a colour to match so will use them as headers and have a pattern.

A brickie throwing up a modern house might lay 600 bricks per day. I guess using lime and taking more care that would reduce to around 300. I'm doing mine myself and expect to manage 100 to 150 bricks a day, so it'll take at least a month.

Yours looks like a tall wall to be built without piers.

 

[stuart45]

How thick is the wall?

 

[MatthewC]

...to the left and running down the footpath the lower section is badly eroded (probably a consequence of the garden being higher on the other side of the wall?) The top of this section is on the lean too.

I'd agree the high garden on the other side would not help. You don't really want to rebuild in lime without addressing that problem.

And how tall is the wall? You say 2m but is that from the side we can see or from the higher garden? It looks more than 2m, with a significant lean near the top in that photo (or is that distortion from the lens?).

 

[overlander matt]

Thanks for your input Malcolm. I've enjoyed being distracted by your blog! Would you think 300 bricks is a conservative estimate for how many a pro would lay in a day? I was hoping for more but recall the speed of our builder working on some other brickwork... I have been looking at short bricklaying courses to as another option that would give me some more confidence to have a go at it myself. There are so many brick walls here requiring attention that I really do need to learn!

The wall is a 9" wall and having been out with the spirit level and tape measure just before dark tonight, I can confirm a height of 2.5m at its highest dropping to 2.2m at the dogleg where the wall is supported by the ash tree. There are 5-6 courses of brick below garden level along the 16m section of wall that looks like it needs rebuilding. There are brick piers on the inside of the wall approximately every 5m. The bricks look to be slightly taller at the top of the wall (70mm) than lower down (65mm) and a number of repairs look to have been carried out over the years. On the whole, the majority of the wall is lime.

Foundations are unknown the wall looks to have some brick footings but beneath these, if it is anything like the house and the barn on the other side of the footpath, built on large stone blocks. Would it be typical to try to rebuild on these or start afresh with concrete? It could be quite an excavation!

Here's a few more photos...

 

[Feltwell]

I had a badly leaning 9" thick brick wall next to my driveway, about 5'6" high - it was leaning we believe due to roots from a nearby large tree. It was leaning badly but not rocking at all, it felt solid. We took it down to ground level and on the brickie's advice, just rebuilt up from there straight again, so on the same below ground courses. That was 11 years ago - it's been fine since, no sign of it starting to lean again. The tree has gone now.

It was on this old thread:-

https://www.periodproperty.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9699&hilit=garage&start=15

If your wall doesn't rock and the foundations are solid, so no sign of active movement, I personally see no point in digging them out to replace them

 

[stuart45]

When I was a bit younger I would have expected to lay between 600 to 800 a day on a job like that. I was probably an average bricklayer speed wise, preferring to aim for a decent quality of work. Nowadays a wall of that height is normally built thicker.
https://www.brick.org.uk/admin/resources/s-free-standing-walls.pdf

 

[overlander matt]

When I was a bit younger I would have expected to lay between 600 to 800 a day on a job like that. I was probably an average bricklayer speed wise, preferring to aim for a decent quality of work. Nowadays a wall of that height is normally built thicker.
https://www.brick.org.uk/admin/resources/s-free-standing-walls.pdf

Thanks Stuart. Appreciate your thoughts on the rate of bricklaying. Presumably that involved someone mixing up for you too. Interesting about the thickness of the wall in the PDF. I am fairly sure I must rebuild the wall to match the original - it was a while ago that I put the walls through the listed building consent application!

I had a badly leaning 9" thick brick wall next to my driveway, about 5'6" high - it was leaning we believe due to roots from a nearby large tree. It was leaning badly but not rocking at all, it felt solid. We took it down to ground level and on the brickie's advice, just rebuilt up from there straight again, so on the same below ground courses. That was 11 years ago - it's been fine since, no sign of it starting to lean again. The tree has gone now.

It was on this old thread:-

https://www.periodproperty.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9699&hilit=garage&start=15

If your wall doesn't rock and the foundations are solid, so no sign of active movement, I personally see no point in digging them out to replace them

I think there was a very large beech tree that was close enough to the wall to have caused a few problems in the previous owners' time here. I would obviously like to save a lot of work in renewing the foundations if possible. This wall doesn't seem to wobble and I don't fancy disturbing it just yet!

Your garage project looks great Feltwell. Out of interest, how tall is it and do you have a loft room above it? There is a patch of land available for a new 'coach house' and I quite fancied the idea of operating my business from an office/lab/workshop above the garage. I've not approached the planners about the design yet but as there used to be a couple of old workers cottages there until the 1950s I should be able to do something. It even escapes being within the curtilage of the listed property too!

 

[Feltwell]

Your garage project looks great Feltwell. Out of interest, how tall is it and do you have a loft room above it? There is a patch of land available for a new 'coach house' and I quite fancied the idea of operating my business from an office/lab/workshop above the garage. I've not approached the planners about the design yet but as there used to be a couple of old workers cottages there until the 1950s I should be able to do something. It even escapes being within the curtilage of the listed property too!

Yeah, one day I'll post an update - when I've finished it! It's been 99.5% finished for quite a while. Easy to work out how long, my wife had our youngest son a few days after I put the doors on it. That was 11 years ago, the doors are due a redecorate now

I have indeed got a loft room above it, I've also got a "cellar" underneath it - only half height, storage that you access from the garden, it's built on a slope. The loft room was only ever intended for storage, so there is just enough head height for a tall person to stand up and walk down the middle of the room, but that is only a couple of feet either side of the apex of the roof. I wouldn't want use it as a "habitable" room, you'd need to go taller. I've got 8' of head room downstairs.

The building is around 16' high at the garage door end. If you wanted the upstairs room to be a habitable one, I think you'd need to go at least 4' higher and possibly compromise on the headroom downstairs as well. It does of course also depend on the width of the building and the roof pitch.

I went as high as I could get away with - the planners made me narrow the building by 4' as it was, as they were concerned about the ridge height.

 

[stuart45]

A labourer is handy to have, although not essential on that kind of job. Normally one would keep 2 bricklayers going, or even 3 on the ground.

 

[overlander matt]

Thanks Stuart and Feltwell. I'm trying to decide whether the wall repair is one for this year (probably not) or next. However, I am thinking about a new wall at the front to match the existing wall on the other side of the driveway to tidy up a patch of wasteland which was originally part of the original curtilage before being sold off in Victorian times.



Given the taper/funnel shape of the wall on the right side, I suspect that there would have been a similar wall on the left side. Although it currently appears to be wasteland, this plot did have a couple of small cottages built on in the 19th century which were later knocked down in the 1950s. When the main house was built in the mid 18th century, I can only imagine there was a similar wall. Does this sound a reasonable assumption? Georgian architecture seems all about symmetry after all.

Being greater than 1m tall, I will need to put in a planning application for the new wall. Conveniently, because this land is on a separate title it does not form part of the curtilage of the listed building so there should be no conservation involvement in the decision making process. I have previously discussed this with the CO and he has no interest in the walls on that side of the driveway.

Ultimately, I would like to build a tall garage in that space - hence the interest in your fantastic garage project Feltwell. I'm not sure what the maximum acceptable height would be in planning circles for a two storey building - given there was a two storey structure there before...

 

[Feltwell]

Hmm, not sure the previous cottages will make a huge amount of difference - but the plot not being within the curtilage should make life much easier, it just becomes a bog standard planning application if you're not in a conservation area I presume.

In which case, they'll be looking to see if what you propose would be detrimental to the street scene, if the access from the road is an issue etc. Design something in keeping with the house and if you can access off the existing drive and give it a go! If there are any mature trees that need to come out then that can be a problem, but can be mitigated sometimes by new planting. Permitted Development definitely isn't an option for a 2 storey building, I'm going to need PP for a brick built garden shed, as I want a pitched roof and can't get within the height limit. Daft thing is they refuse it I can still build it but with an ugly flat roof.

 

[malcolm]

I would wait until you've done the first wall before doing the next one. Though it would look good. The bricks to make up mine should arrive tomorrow and I'm guessing a month to rebuild. I could get a fence up in a few days but it wouldn't look as nice. And I quite enjoy bricklaying.

 

[overlander matt]

Hmm, not sure the previous cottages will make a huge amount of difference - but the plot not being within the curtilage should make life much easier, it just becomes a bog standard planning application if you're not in a conservation area I presume.

In which case, they'll be looking to see if what you propose would be detrimental to the street scene, if the access from the road is an issue etc. Design something in keeping with the house and if you can access off the existing drive and give it a go! If there are any mature trees that need to come out then that can be a problem, but can be mitigated sometimes by new planting. Permitted Development definitely isn't an option for a 2 storey building, I'm going to need PP for a brick built garden shed, as I want a pitched roof and can't get within the height limit. Daft thing is they refuse it I can still build it but with an ugly flat roof.

As luck would have it, we are in a conservation area but the boundary of the conservation area is defined by the walls of our house so technically this would fall outside from the planning perspective. We will use the current driveway for access and already have permission to fell the tree. First phase will be to build the wall and then consider options for the garage when funds permit...

I would wait until you've done the first wall before doing the next one. Though it would look good. The bricks to make up mine should arrive tomorrow and I'm guessing a month to rebuild. I could get a fence up in a few days but it wouldn't look as nice. And I quite enjoy bricklaying.

Hope you're making good progress on the wall Malcolm. I think we might have decent weather for outdoor work this week.

 

[malcolm]

Hope you're making good progress on the wall Malcolm. I think we might have decent weather for outdoor work this week.

I had 2000 bricks delivered to add to the 1500 saved from the wall. Work will dry up in a couple of weeks so I'm planning to organise a guy with a digger and the concrete man to do the foundations. My foundations were 3 inches thick, started above ground level in places, sit at an angle, and are 6 inches out of straight due to a big tree so on balance I thought new ones would be the way to go. Should be a good project to start. It's easy to set up to lay some bricks when I get spare days.

Your coping looks nice. I've not figured out coping yet. Half rounds would be £1500 for 21m which is more than I want to pay.

 

[stuart45]

You could do this if you have the time.