Dry rot never ending nightmare

[nickkellymetal]

Hi all, wondering if anyone is able to give me a bit of advice on this dry rot problem we have. So a bit of back story -

My next door neighbour (terraced house) had a dry rot outbreak about 18 months ago, to remedy it she had her sub floor timbers removed and the void filled with concrete. Bare in mind we live on a hill, her house is higher than mine. Ever since she had this done, we have started to get damp patches on the party wall just above the skirting after rain. Upon investigation in my own sub floor, I've found cotton wool mycelium coming out of the mortar joints in the sub floor party wall. My sub floor is very deep, about 4 foot and has an earthy floor which is dry. At a bit of a loss as to how to tackle it. We have been down and removed all the mycelium, but it just keeps coming back through the mortar in the party wall. None of my timber has been affected as yet, but I'm worried because there is obviously moisture in the walls which we are seeing as damp patches after rain. Any advice much appreciated. Sorry it's so long!

 

[Matt Green]

My next door neighbour (terraced house) had a dry rot outbreak about 18 months ago, to remedy it she had her sub floor timbers removed and the void filled with concrete.

Morning,

That was a catastrophically bad thing to have done.

Upon investigation in my own sub floor, I've found cotton wool mycelium coming out of the mortar joints in the sub floor party wall. My sub floor is very deep, about 4 foot and has an earthy floor which is dry. At a bit of a loss as to how to tackle it. We have been down and removed all the mycelium, but it just keeps coming back through the mortar in the party wall. None of my timber has been affected as yet, but I'm worried because there is obviously moisture in the walls which we are seeing as damp patches after rain. Any advice much appreciated. Sorry it's so long!

You are doing the right thing. Dry rot has an affinity or tolerance to calcium and grows through mortar joints and scraping it off or spraying it with a fungicide will keep it from reaching your floor timbers until it exhausts all its stored energy and dies.

Unless it is feeding on something.

Dry rot really isn't very salt tolerant and doesn't like groundwater much as a result, however once it's growing on or over subfloor masonry it can be very challenging indeed to remove as it can find enough timber in wood shavings and timber debris in the subfloor floor void deposited there by carpenters to give it enough energy to keep growing. Sweep out your floor void, certainly.

Concerns:

• Your neighbour's skirting boards
• Your skirting boards
• Whether or not the damn fools that filled in your neighbour's floor with concrete were scrupulous about removing all the timber from it first

The damp patches on your walls after rain are going to be a feature for you now- your neighbour has raised the ground level such that that section of wall is now 'earth retaining'. Without tanking or lining the plaster on your side will blow eventually. Any survey on your house will now find 'damp' in that wall.

What was the cause of the dry rot outbreak? Has it been addressed? It wasn't groundwater- something has to leak, burst or break because dry rot spores require a lot of fresh water to germinate.


Matt

 

[nickkellymetal]

Morning,

That was a catastrophically bad thing to have done.



You are doing the right thing. Dry rot has an affinity or tolerance to calcium and grows through mortar joints and scraping it off or spraying it with a fungicide will keep it from reaching your floor timbers until it exhausts all its stored energy and dies.

Unless it is feeding on something.

Dry rot really isn't very salt tolerant and doesn't like groundwater much as a result, however once it's growing on or over subfloor masonry it can be very challenging indeed to remove as it can find enough timber in wood shavings and timber debris in the subfloor floor void deposited there by carpenters to give it enough energy to keep growing. Sweep out your floor void, certainly.

Concerns:

• Your neighbour's skirting boards
• Your skirting boards
• Whether or not the damn fools that filled in your neighbour's floor with concrete were scrupulous about removing all the timber from it first

The damp patches on your walls after rain are going to be a feature for you now- your neighbour has raised the ground level such that that section of wall is now 'earth retaining'. Without tanking or lining the plaster on your side will blow eventually. Any survey on your house will now find 'damp' in that wall.

What was the cause of the dry rot outbreak? Has it been addressed? It wasn't groundwater- something has to leak, burst or break because dry rot spores require a lot of fresh water to germinate.


Matt

Hi Matt, thank you for the reply, very much appreciated.

I've been in the sub floor vacuuming the hell out of every bit of organic matter I can find. Im under the floorboards every couple of days checking it. I can only assume it's still feeding off whatever has been left in my neighbors side and funnily enough she has just put the house up for sale! She had a group of guys she found on Facebook to do the work, originally from Bulgaria, who didnt speak very good English.

I would imagine the initial source of moisture was a mix of a badly leaking gutter which splashes all over her bay window in heavy rain (and still does) and lack of ventilation as her air bricks have been covered with a drive at the front and a wall removed in the rear yard (which housed an air brick) which has been replaced with a UPVC window/patio door).

From what other neighbors on the street have told me, it's gradually worked it's way down the street and has affected 5 of the 8 houses on our row. On top of that, there is a stream which runs under the end house obviously a source of water) Not sure I could have picked a worse street to move to!

Would you know if any possible solution to stopping the damp patches on my side? Not really sure what I could do to stop the moisture coming through, I can't see an easy solution to making it water tight now that her sub floor breaches my DPC. I've thought about trying the dreaded dry rods to create a new DPC, I know these are generally classed as a phoney solution. What about applying something like zinsser water tite to the sub floor masonry and the wall above?

 

[Matt Green]

Would you know if any possible solution to stopping the damp patches on my side? Not really sure what I could do to stop the moisture coming through, I can't see an easy solution to making it water tight now that her sub floor breaches my DPC. I've thought about trying the dreaded dry rods to create a new DPC, I know these are generally classed as a phoney solution. What about applying something like zinsser water tite to the sub floor masonry and the wall above?

Morning, sorry I'm the bearer of bad news, I sympathise with your situation.

Short of dry lining the wall isolating any battens from the wall or use plastic battens you don't have a lot of options. I DPC isn't the answer here: the water is penetrating straight through rather than moving upwards to evaporate. coating the subfloor walls with a water proofing agent is going to push the water somewhere else. The one upside with your situation is that at least you know where the dry rot is at the moment.

 

[nickkellymetal]

U

Morning, sorry I'm the bearer of bad news, I sympathise with your situation.

Short of dry lining the wall isolating any battens from the wall or use plastic battens you don't have a lot of options. I DPC isn't the answer here: the water is penetrating straight through rather than moving upwards to evaporate. coating the subfloor walls with a water proofing agent is going to push the water somewhere else. The one upside with your situation is that at least you know where the dry rot is at the moment.

Ugh. I appreciate your help, thank you.

I'm going to add 2 more air bricks, try to get as much air in the sub floor as possible and tackle the dry rot best I can. Try to replace as much timber as I can with none organic materials. Patch the wall up and sell the house. Wish me luck.

Just one thing, do you think I would have a leg to stand on if I went down the legal route/insurance, as the work next door has directly affected my home? I believe there is a party wall agreement which states im to be notified about any work involving the party wall area? Clutching at straws I know, but money is tight, I've 2 young kids and a single dad.

Thanks a lot for the help.

 

[mardinor]

While you may have a potential party wall claim, it would jeopardise your chances of selling as you would need to declare any neighbour dispute.
Honestly, if you can then I would add the air bricks and move. Your neighbour has permanently b&&gered up their house and yours, it seems, and few will dig out the concrete now. Sorry.

 

[Lacan07]

I agree with Mardinor, whilst there are steps you can take to improve the situation its now largely out of your control. Very few people choose to remove concrete floors. I would cut my losses and sell, give the wall a lick of paint or shove furniture in front of it when the potential buyers arrive.

 

[Stevers]

The problem with that is that you know there's a problem that should be declared during the sale, though whether it could be proven...

Moving is expensive, so the alternative would be to contribute towards putting next door right, though I can see problems with that too. Removing the concrete that's against the wall might be enough rather than all of it, and would lessen the impact on the neighbour. You'd need stick and carrot, because I'm guessing that though your neighbour is causing a nuisance, they don't think they've got a problem. This seems to me to be the sort of neighbourly dispute that can be resolved and won't be a problem when declared.

 

[LadyArowana]

Whilst there are things which “should” be declared, there’s also the practicality of proving that they “should have been declared “ after the fact, which would be very expensive legal option for a purchaser and by no means a guaranteed win. It will be interesting as to whether the seller ( of next door ) will declare their issues, or just cross their fingers and hope any survey doesn’t spot it.

 

[Lacan07]

The problem with that is that you know there's a problem that should be declared during the sale, though whether it could be proven...

Moving is expensive, so the alternative would be to contribute towards putting next door right, though I can see problems with that too. Removing the concrete that's against the wall might be enough rather than all of it, and would lessen the impact on the neighbour. You'd need stick and carrot, because I'm guessing that though your neighbour is causing a nuisance, they don't think they've got a problem. This seems to me to be the sort of neighbourly dispute that can be resolved and won't be a problem when declared.

That's true, moving is expensive these days. I'm afraid sellers hide stuff all the time and suffer no consequences, the OP could easily argue ignorance and add into that the fact the issue is caused by the neighbour and beyond their control. At least there might be new neighbours arriving and therefore an opportunity to talk about a resolution.

 

[nickkellymetal]

Appreciate all the replies.

Managed to speak to next doors father who admitted there are damp problems on their side of the wall too since having the sub floor void filled with concrete (which cost several thousands) and he basically said his daughter is doing a runner as they can't spend any more money. Told him it's affected my side, to which there was silence. Zero chance of any resolution at present. I'm very stressed about it to be honest, just want a pleasant home for my kids to live in, not one full of dry rot and damp.

 

[Lacan07]

Appreciate all the replies.

Managed to speak to next doors father who admitted there are damp problems on their side of the wall too since having the sub floor void filled with concrete (which cost several thousands) and he basically said his daughter is doing a runner as they can't spend any more money. Told him it's affected my side, to which there was silence. Zero chance of any resolution at present. I'm very stressed about it to be honest, just want a pleasant home for my kids to live in, not one full of dry rot and damp.

You never know the new neighbours may be willing to deal with the issue, especially if you offer to help. There are options that don't require a builder, you can easily cut a narrow channel along the wall yourselves, dig out the concrete / base layers and cover the void with a serviceable grill. If your neighbours have carpet or laminate down then the grill is easily hidden. If not just choose a decorative grill.

 

[LadyArowana]

You never know the new neighbours may be willing to deal with the issue, especially if you offer to help. There are options that don't require a builder, you can easily cut a narrow channel along the wall yourselves, dig out the concrete / base layers and cover the void with a serviceable grill. If your neighbours have carpet or laminate down then the grill is easily hidden. If not just choose a decorative grill.

Do you think a hybrid of this approach above with a grill + breathable membrane + limecrete would be a possible plan too? No experience myself, I had to leave our awful concrete basement floor in place for ‘reasons’ as they say, I’m not likely to be in a position to ever fix that, but always interested in ideas in case my Euromillions ticket wins big*

*note to self, buy my once per month allowed £2.50 Euromillions ticket

 

[nickkellymetal]

This is the latest find. It was a hard to see area and probably been there a while. Joist seems to be mostly unaffected, passed the screwdriver test. The wet around it is fungicide, I was spraying the masonry down when I found it. Knocked it off and continued spraying. It never ends.

Also interestingly, I have never found any dry rot strands, only ever fruiting bodies.

 

[nickkellymetal]

Also, for anyone that is interested, this is my sub floor. There are unblocked air bricks at each end, with a honey combed sub floor. Everything seems dry, there is zero condensation and there's a through draught. Doesn't seem an ideal dry rot environment, but hey ho.

 

[Richeee]

Im no legal expert but Personally if it was myself i would involve the party wall surveyor if there was one before she does a runner with the money. If not contact one. A known problem should be dealt with by the selling party. Im not sure if a charge can ultimatly be placed on her property by the surveyor. But i would take professional advice.

 

[Lacan07]

Do you think a hybrid of this approach above with a grill + breathable membrane + limecrete would be a possible plan too? No experience myself, I had to leave our awful concrete basement floor in place for ‘reasons’ as they say, I’m not likely to be in a position to ever fix that, but always interested in ideas in case my Euromillions ticket wins big*

*note to self, buy my once per month allowed £2.50 Euromillions ticket

Yeah, I don't see why not, but are you saying fill the channel you've just cut with limecrete? I don't see the point of that, you'll still be pumping moisture into your walls. I'm not a fan of any kind of solid floor including limecrete.

 

[LadyArowana]

Yeah, I don't see why not, but are you saying fill the channel you've just cut with limecrete? I don't see the point of that, you'll still be pumping moisture into your walls. I'm not a fan of any kind of solid floor including limecrete.

I was thinking of the grill over the void, then the membrane to stop limecrete falling through the grill into a void, all hypothetical really!

 

[Matt Green]

Also interestingly, I have never found any dry rot strands, only ever fruiting bodies.

That's curiously a good thing: fungi only ever fruit is they are dying. It takes a lot of energy to product those fruiting bodies so fungi don't do it unless they are running out of food, water or both. You may have it on the back foot- stick with you efforts!

 

[nickkellymetal]

That's curiously a good thing: fungi only ever fruit is they are dying. It takes a lot of energy to product those fruiting bodies so fungi don't do it unless they are running out of food, water or both. You may have it on the back foot- stick with you efforts!

Hope so, the fruiting bodies I've found don't look very well either, they look rotten in places with black dead areas on them so I think it is definitely struggling to survive. I'll keep at it.