Floorboards: Sanding off stuck-on paper + Upstairs floor sanding vibrations

[lizziecupcakes]

Hi, I am seeking advice from flooring experts including Toby Newell, if you're available (gave me some great advice on a previous thread). I'm also based in Kingston!

I plan to sand all my wooden floors, upstairs and downstairs. But I'm getting ceilings re-plastered in some of the downstairs rooms and worried about the sanding upstairs may cause vibrations and cracks in the new plaster. I am super nervous about this because to re-plaster my ceilings, it is costing quite a lot (I have recently learned).

My other question is: when I lifted the carpets off the floors, I noted this particular room has lots of paper stuck to the boards. I have no idea why or how. Some bits are easy to peel off, but generally it feels stuck on. I don't know if the sander can get rid of this? Photo attached.

A final question is: I have black japandi on the edges - will this cause colour problems after varnishing (or even staining)? In another room, there is japandi in various sections and it's super annoying.

If anyone has experience of these, it would be much appreciated!

 

[lizziecupcakes]

 

[a twig]

In the days before modern underlay paper was often put down before carpet, a decent scraper will take the paper off without too much effort, sander will clog.

The black Japan finish will sand off relatively easily.

If you’re concerned about damage to the ceilings below I’d suggest sanding the floors before you do the ceilings.

 

[lizziecupcakes]

I will try a scraper but just feel like it might not work since I wont be able to get it wet, being the flooring. Can you use a scraper in a dry surface?

 

[a twig]

A proper scraper - something like this with a tungsten carbide blade:

https://amzn.eu/d/ixGWKb0

should be fine

 

[Kearn]

Sanding is overkill, especially if you’re expecting it to damage ceilings, which implies you’re thinking of a serious belt sander or similar. These can do a lot of damage very easily. Selective hand sanding, or a puny hand held orbital sander won’t do too much harm, assuming you keep the grit level sensible.

as above, the Bahco cabinet scrapers are a definite for your toolkit, the 665 better for large flat areas, and the second knob helps with applying pressure. The 625 is great for smaller tasks. Just be careful, they don’t need too much pressure and you don’t want to catch a corner of the blade and nick the surface.

Neither the scraper or sanding is likely to remove all the black, as it will have penetrated the boards. To remove all trace would require removing a daft amount of timber.

 

[Jonty1234]

We have recently sanded the floorboards in our Edwardian house and found the same newspaper and black marks around the edge of the rooms too. Fortunately for us the newspaper was on top of lino that hadn't been removed so wasn't stuck to the floorboards and generally easy to remove. As above, I would have thought a scraper (even a paint scraper used carefully) would be sufficient to remove anything stuck to the floorboards. I assume you will be doing it yourself so just take your time to ensure you don't dig into the wood. Easy does it. Any sanding you do afterwards will likely remove the few scrape marks you do make.

From what I understand the black markings around the room edges are a tar based paint which was used to mitigate any dampness. We got this off using an edge sander (without removing too much timber we should add) and you can't really see any traces of it now post oiling. It took more time than sanding the areas without it and even more time with a B&D Mouse in the areas the edge sander couldn't reach. I wouldn't recommend using a Mouse or equivalent on much more than an A5 piece of paper sized area as you will soon lose any motivation you might have started with.....

I should add we are diy'ers rather than flooring experts. I'll leave it to others to advise if belt sanding etc is likely to disturb the newly plastered ceiling below.

 

[CliffordPope]

I've often found old newspaper on floors underneath the carpets. In fact I remember my parents routinely spreading newspaper when laying carpets - I assumed as basic cushioning and to stop draughts through the cracks. I've never found the paper actually stuck to the floor, just very flat and a bit steamrollered from people walking on the floor.
I always end up spending a lot of time reading the papers - news and adverts from a hundred years ago is fascinating.

 

[lizziecupcakes]

We have recently sanded the floorboards in our Edwardian house and found the same newspaper and black marks around the edge of the rooms too. Fortunately for us the newspaper was on top of lino that hadn't been removed so wasn't stuck to the floorboards and generally easy to remove. As above, I would have thought a scraper (even a paint scraper used carefully) would be sufficient to remove anything stuck to the floorboards. I assume you will be doing it yourself so just take your time to ensure you don't dig into the wood. Easy does it. Any sanding you do afterwards will likely remove the few scrape marks you do make.

From what I understand the black markings around the room edges are a tar based paint which was used to mitigate any dampness. We got this off using an edge sander (without removing too much timber we should add) and you can't really see any traces of it now post oiling. It took more time than sanding the areas without it and even more time with a B&D Mouse in the areas the edge sander couldn't reach. I wouldn't recommend using a Mouse or equivalent on much more than an A5 piece of paper sized area as you will soon lose any motivation you might have started with.....

I should add we are diy'ers rather than flooring experts. I'll leave it to others to advise if belt sanding etc is likely to disturb the newly plastered ceiling below.

Thanks for this.
I’m a bit put off the belt sander now for the upstairs. I will use if for the downstairs floors though.

May I ask what tools you used exactly for the sanding? Did you use a stain and varnish? If so, which products? Thank you for sharing

 

[Jonty1234]

We hired both a belt sander and edge sander but ended up using the edge sander for 90% of the floor. One thing I found with the belt sander was that if there was the slightest rough edge etc that might catch the sanding sheet then it would inevitably rip and be sent flying across the room. After that happening a few times and having to keep replacing the sanding sheet I switched permanently to the edge sander.

After lots of research and reading countless forums (including here) we eventually plumped for Osmo 3062 clear matt. Despite reading that the end result can look yellow/orange-ish on pine boards (which we have) it isn't something that we have found ourselves or been disappointed with. We didn't want the finish to be very dark and also looked into Morrells (new light oak?) but weren't impressed with the sample patches that we tried.

There are so many comments and opinions on finishes etc it can feel like you are going round in circles. It is best if you can get sample / small pots to try out once you have narrowed your choices down as much as you can.

 

[Lacan07]

I will try a scraper but just feel like it might not work since I wont be able to get it wet, being the flooring. Can you use a scraper in a dry surface?

The Bahco scraper that Twig has linked above is excellent, they're incredibly sharp and will remove paint easily so some paper shouldn't be much trouble.

I don't know how big your rooms are but Toby advised me not to hire the mandatory drum and edge sander and told me to buy a Festool Rotex hand sander. This was partly because I'm staining my floors and if you stain every sanding mistake will show and Toby reckons its impossible to avoid mistakes with a drum sander. Its a bit more work but you get way more control and of course I own it so I can use it any time I want and the dust extraction is amazing. You might feel more confident with a Festool with regard to your ceilings as I doubt it will cause any problems.

 

[lizziecupcakes]

Thanks @Lacan07 I’m going to ditch the belt sander altogether now. I’m hoping to hire the hand held sander or buy it if it’s cheap enough. Im based in Kingston Surrey/London if you know a place?

Regarding mistakes in the flooring: In our main bedroom, the floors look sanded down already when we pulled back the carpet. Looks like the previous owner Attempted to sand the floors.

But there are areas that appear as though they may have burned through the wood a little with the sander. I found a few patches of this. So I’m a bit annoyed with that. I’m still going to sand it down with the hand sander and see what to do. But I think I might have to replace those boards before staining.

I also want to stain my floorboards to a golden oak colour. Do you know which stains are best to use by any chance? I’ve attached a photo of the floorboards that appear sanded down already. I don’t know why, but they have an orange hue to them (or maybe my eyes deceive me). I definitely don’t want orange floorboards!

The floors are a bit dusty atm but one of the photos shows the actual colour beneath it. I think it’ll be the last one.

Thank you.

 

[lizziecupcakes]

Also, this is the contrast between the main bedroom and the upstairs landing (darker wood)

 

[lizziecupcakes]

@Lacan07 I also found the Festools on B&Q. Which one do you recommend?
https://www.diy.com/tools-equipment/power-tools/sanders.cat?Brand=Festool

Also, can I use these hand sanders on wood furniture, as I have a few upcycling projects I want to work on

Thank you

 

[fernicarry]

Orbitals aren't the best for getting into corners. You will have extra corners where the boards meet end to end as one board is inevitably sitting a bit higher than the other. What you want to avoid is sanding the corners off the higher one whilst you attempt to burn through to the lower one.

That said I'm persisting with my little bottom of the range Bosch mains orbital, only 80 quid on line and surprisingly competent with the right paper, in a room that's about 11'x8'. Doing it in small batches each day to avoid losing the will to live... I also have a delta sanding pad for my multitool for the more awkward bits.

Same sander and its cordless sibling have seen action on the odd bit of furniture tarting up and for flatting back dodgy areas of plaster repair.

Festool also do a linear sander. I've seen it in use on Bradshaw Joinery on YouTube (his videos are well worth a watch for something to aspire to) and thought to myself that might be more appropriate for floor boards but investing in the Festool ecosystem is way out of my budget. If Toby were here I'm sure he'd give us War and Peace on the subject.

You'll also need an extractor. I have a Bosch one that has a cleverly designed nozzle that attaches to all my other Bosch power tools from largest to smallest so its in almost constant use. Its crazy powerful when its filter is clean and will actually hold the sander upside down on the ceiling by suction alone! Downside is that the suction force can cause the orbital to vibrate and dance around if you aren't paying attention.

Tbh I'd put all my sanding energies into the rest of the woodwork before I'd bother with the floors. Looks like it been many a year since it was shown some TLC. Much like this place... You'll be doing a lot of that by hand to get into the curves of the profiles and that really will suck the life energy out of you. The woodwork is always on show but the floors can be covered up until you are ready to tackle them. Maybe just do a foot or so around the edge of the room and put a rug down for now.

 

[Cubist]

Sorry to be a damp squib here but you need to know that the Festool kit is aimed at professionals and is very expensive. An orbital hand sander from them costs in the order of £450 where a technically equivalent tool from DeWalt costs about a third of that and there are many other cheaper makes. All of them have the versatility and power to allow use on large and small projects.

 

[lizziecupcakes]

Thank you both!
Yes, Festool is very expensive. I'm wondering if it's cheaper to buy it, compared to hiring a floor specialist. Also, my aim is to use whichever sander on my furniture projects.

I will definitely checkout DeWalt though.
@Cubist do you have a recommended one from DeWalt?

If it does the same job and finish (the finish is very important to me) then I'd consider DeWalt for sure

@Lacan07 I'd love your experiences on the finish with the Festool and your staining.

 

[Cubist]

Where tools in particular are concerned my choice is always based on 'function' above 'form' and is best illustrated by a comparison between a Rolls Royce and a Mini. The Roller will get you to your destination in comfort and style while the Mini will simply get you there. Most of my personal power tools are Bosch while others in my collection include some makes whose names have been lost to time - including my current belt and plate sanders - all of which still get the job done. DeWalt products, like Bosch, have excellent production standards and are constructed using resilient good quality materials that perform well. But, asked for my personal recommendation that would be Bosch as their pricing is better whilst their function is equivalent in every meaningful way to DeWalt or Festool for that matter.

Crudely put - a spanner is a spanner is a spanner - and that definition includes the bloke that chooses the spanner that doesn't fit the nut.

 

[overlander matt]

Interesting thread as we are embarking on the floor sanding project. we have around 20sqm split over a hallway and landing. I need a new sander and maybe a dust extractor (I use a Titan vacuum hooked up to any power tools at the moment which does a job but I feel a floor sanding project is the next level up). Interested to hear what others recommend on a budget. Thanks!

 

[Kearn]

Crudely put - a spanner is a spanner is a spanner -

Well, except the elusive 10mm….