Heart wrenched after finding this in a house we just purchased. What is this?

[Lloydy1975]

Hello everyone, I’m disappointed to announce that I finally was able to scrimp and save enough to buy my first house. I got a RICS level 3 done and there were some repairs carried out on the house based on these findings, but this was missed.
This is the loft space with the party wall that connects to the neighbours building. As far as I can tell, this separation in bricks and mortar stretches throughout to the neighbours building. I am very heartbroken and no one informed us of this even when the works of removing a redundant chimney breast were carried out. This seems like a costly repair, is it subsidence? I really need someone form of clarity and understanding.

Thank you in advance,
All the best,
Lloyd.

 

[a twig]

Hi

Sorry to hear that - do you have some more “zoomed out” photos of the area to help provide some more context please?

 

[stuart45]

It looks more like movement in the roof, like roof spread, but only a guess.

 

[Lloydy1975]

Hi

Sorry to hear that - do you have some more “zoomed out” photos of the area to help provide some more context please?

 

[Lloydy1975]

I’m trying to send the best pictures I have. I’m really concerned about this, please any advice would be appreciated. Is this something that should have show up on the RICS survey? The survey mentioned about the redundant chimney breast that wasn’t removed and we asked for that to be removed, but there was no mention of separation of the brickwork, it goes through to the neighbouring building in which you can see into their loft with a torch.

 

[Gothichome]

To my eye this looks like the part wall mass had settled faster than the exterior wall. Being a party wall this would be a fire break, the framing is holding the soffit is holding up the top course of brick. Bellow the soffit the separation ends. Have you chatted with your neighbor I bet it’s the same on their side.

 

[Lloydy1975]

To my eye this looks like the part wall mass had settled faster than the exterior wall. Being a party wall this would be a fire break, the framing is holding the soffit is holding up the top course of brick. Bellow the soffit the separation ends. Have you chatted with your neighbor I bet it’s the same on their side.

I haven’t spoken to the neighbours about it yet, but I can see into their loft, so they definitely have the same issue we do. But I think next door is a rental, so I doubt they’re concerned even if they know about it.

 

[Gothichome]

Ops, more pictures, some one has dealt with the issue. To the right looks to be a chimney stack doing held up by brackets thus the weighty mass. It seams something has been removed I don’t know what to make of that, a wooden beam maybe that transferred the weight of the chimney? Maybe it rotted out.

 

[stuart45]

How tall is the chimney stack above the roof line?

 

[Gothichome]

I haven’t spoken to the neighbours about it yet, but I can see into their loft, so they definitely have the same issue we do. But I think next door is a rental, so I doubt they’re concerned even if they know about it.

Well it certainly will not work well as a fire break. Don’t tell you insurance company. What does the other side of the chimney stack look like

 

[Lloydy1975]

How tall is the chimney stack above the roof line?

It’s about three feet above the roofline, thanks

 

[Lloydy1975]

Well it certainly will not work well as a fire break. Don’t tell you insurance company. What does the other side of the chimney stack look like

The other side looks completely intact. No changes to the brickwork at all

 

[Gothichome]

I see see some similar settling on the other side, nothing I would be concerned about. Also I see different (newer) chimney bricks just below the roof line so suspect the chimney has been rebuilt from the roofline up, not uncommon. Here’s a thought, would be interested to hear what others think. It’s my understanding that a lot of Victorian row houses were built on the cheap with minimal thought to the long term. I wonder if during the construction the builders found their chimney was sinking do to lack of proper footings or surface prep. To correct this and bring the roof level back in line to the none sinking side they just installed a wooden beam as a spacer to make up the difference. Over time the beam rotted out causing the sag in the masonry. It was rectified with the brackets and the lintel a century later. Remember there were no building reg’s or inspectors back then. So it may not be an issue other than it’s a hole in the fire break, easily fixed by a brick layer.

 

[Lloydy1975]

I see see some similar settling on the other side, nothing I would be concerned about. Also I see different (newer) chimney bricks just below the roof line so suspect the chimney has been rebuilt from the roofline up, not uncommon. Here’s a thought, would be interested to hear what others think. It’s my understanding that a lot of Victorian row houses were built on the cheap with minimal thought to the long term. I wonder if during the construction the builders found their chimney was sinking do to lack of proper footings or surface prep. To correct this and bring the roof level back in line to the none sinking side they just installed a wooden beam as a spacer to make up the difference. Over time the beam rotted out causing the sag in the masonry. It was rectified with the brackets and the lintel a century later. Remember there were no building reg’s or inspectors back then. So it may not be an issue other than it’s a hole in the fire break, easily fixed by a brick layer.

I completely understand where you’re coming from. I’m having a bricklayer come and see it tomorrow. The house was built in the early 50’s and is a semi. Still think it’s the case? I’m mainly concerned about when I need to remortgage and also the long term effects on the building if it doesn’t get repaired, which I can’t afford to do at the moment in any case. There’s loads of these houses, but I feel I have been the unlucky one to get one with such issues.

Thank you all for your inputs

 

[Cubist]

When was the chimney breast removed? Before or after the RICS report was produced? The timbers, supporting the uppermost and remaining section of the chimney, and mounted on the steel brackets shown would have been installed ahead of the breast removal work below.

It's likely that the separation of the brickwork near the roof line occurred during the preparations for and installation of those timbers and there appears to be a reciprocal but smaller crack in the brickwork to the right. Together these suggest a small settlement of the brickwork resulting from the removal of the masonry that comprised the chimney breast and flue.

 

[Lloydy1975]

When was the chimney breast removed? Before or after the RICS report was produced? The timbers, supporting the uppermost and remaining section of the chimney, and mounted on the steel brackets shown would have been installed ahead of the breast removal work below.

It's likely that the separation of the brickwork near the roof line occurred during the preparations for and installation of those timbers and there appears to be a reciprocal but smaller crack in the brickwork to the right. Together these suggest a small settlement of the brickwork resulting from the removal of the masonry that comprised the chimney breast and flue.

The RICS report was before the removal of the chimney breast when the support bracket was installed. I just think of worst case scenario in these situations. Any further advice would be hugely appreciated.

 

[noj]

The important thing is that the brick infill between the properties is NOT structural, it's just there to act as a firebreak and to stop you wandering around your neighbour's attic. There are still plenty of older rows of terraced houses where it's possible to go along an entire street unimpeded!

 

[Cubist]

I suspect @noj is right and that upper section of brickwork is supporting nothing at all. A little cement mortar is probably all that is needed to secure the loos bricks and close the gaps through to your neighbours attic. Best to check the roof line outdoors though just to make sure there are no indications of settlement of the roof line.

 

[Lloydy1975]

thank you everyone for your input. It’s all been a bit much to take on. Thank you everyone. I’m going to keep an eye on things and see if it changes.

 

[a twig]

That timber going into the wall next to the cracking is a purlin, does the cracking/movement continue on past down to the left of it?

If it does that might indicate the roof is spreading and you might want to consider putting in some timber (might just be some collar ties) to tie the rafters on either side together and prevent further spreading.

If it’s all fine beneath then potentially someone just got a bit enthusiastic during the chimney breast removal and the bricky can make good again