Insulated/thermal lining paper -- any experience?

[fernicarry]

As title says any experience with these? Do they make any measurable difference? They've very thin compared to 'real' insulation so the effect must be small.

Wall construction here is solid stone with lath and plaster hung on wooden studs 'dooked' into the stone. There is a fair amount of air movement in the void between the plaster and the stone which is a good thing in terms of keeping the wall dry but is very draughty. Starting from a fairly low baseline thermal-wise.

I'm moving the radiators next to the window to free up some wall space in two rooms which of course puts them on an outside wall. Putting something, anything, between the radiator and the outside world has to be worth attempting.

Most products seem to be 3 or 4mm thick. There is one thats only 1mm thick. I've got skirting boards off of both walls so can reattach over the thickness of the lining. This will move the board forward relative to the window architrave leaving it almost flush with the front face of the architrave. One room has a cornice so the step at the base of the cornice will be reduced. I think I can live with these detail changes if I get some comfort improvement in return.

Also strikes me could be useful for coombed ceilings that don't get the benefit of loft insulation. Wouldn't work for these two rooms because of the detail where the window recess meets the coom but would in other rooms if and when I get around to decorating them.

Thanks.

 

[a twig]

I've used it as an alternative to re-plastering, afraid I can't say I noticed any insulation or acoustic benefit to be honest

 

[noj]

I've papered the external walls upstairs in our cottage with the 4mm stuff. It's theoretically breathable but have my doubts about the adhesive?

The thermal and acoustic difference is vastly improved here. This winter we were only heating in the evenings with the woodburner downstairs and were able to leave the door to the stairs open and the bedrooms were at a comfortable temp.

It's obviously not a huge amount of insulation but since our wall construction is just a layer of lath and plaster, a very well ventilated air gap and weatherboard on the outside it's significant!
A more solid building with some thermal mass may reap a less noticeable reward...

The other benefit is that the process did seal a lot of air leakage around window frames, wall plate, posts etc

 

[fernicarry]

Thanks folks. So that's a 50:50 split!

I did wonder about the claims of breathability. The wall is currently bone dry but judging by the carnage caused by worm its not always been that way. Suspect that was due to water ingress around the window frame in the past evidenced by a relatively new sash box. Of course whoever did that made no attempt to fix the rotten joists etc., that falls to me. Their solution was to cut a ventilation grill into the skirting board!

The fire rating is also a bit dubious. Did either of you use the recommended fire rated paper over the insulated paper?

I'm sealing gaps as a separate process. There was a good 1/4" gap between the window architrave and the plaster that had a howling gale coming through it plus many small gaps in the paneling in the recess. Also putting wool and loose fill insulation behind the paneling where possible.

I have a few rows of floorboards up so I'm going to put a vapour membrane over the joists and lap it up the wall, extend the lining paper down behind where the skirting boards go and tape the two together. That should stop draughts coming in between the skirting board and the floorboards.

Anyone have any other cunning ideas?

 

[noj]

I didn't go for the fire rated lining paper, used the non-woven stuff over the top. A single paper thick layer of slightly fire retardant material on the external walls of an otherwise completely combustible structure didn't seem that important.

Regarding your membrane comments: I do wonder if a breather membrane is 'safer' than introducing something completely impervious over joists unless the void is really well insulated?

 

[fernicarry]

Regarding your membrane comments: I do wonder if a breather membrane is 'safer' than introducing something completely impervious over joists unless the void is really well insulated?

Yes you are right, I'm thinking of vapour permeable, not vapour control i.e a breather membrane.

 

[wobs]

We had 4mm lining paper fitted to our daughters bedroom on two exterior walls and ceiling. The room feels warmer, but bare in mind we also had a double glazed sash window fitted around teh same time as well (during summer), so how much the wallpaper made a difference, we'll never know.

I don't expect it to make too much difference on the bills. I mean look at how think normal insulation is, it makes think it would be marginal.

 

[george2019]

Far too thin to have any thermal benefit. Brings a risk of trapping moisture, causing a damp issue.

I would avoid.

If insulation is difficult to achieve, then work on airtightness and controlled ventilation. You lose a lot more energy to convection (a draft) than to conduction (heat transfer through a wall).

 

[fernicarry]

If insulation is difficult to achieve, then work on airtightness and controlled ventilation. You lose a lot more energy to convection (a draft) than to conduction (heat transfer through a wall).

Totally agree. Thats what I'm trying to do with the breather membrane, decouple the ventilated spaces from the interior of the room. If I can slip some insulation in at the same time so much the better.

The way the cost of energy is going this all starts to look rather urgent...

 

[stuzz82]

I'm in a stone walled grade 2 farmhouse. The walls are solid stone.
I've heard many good things about Rockwall insulated lining paper. I assumed it was a gimmick but so many people have left reviews saying it's made the room warm.
I've a friend who just tried Rempro thermal paint ... Also very good reviews. He tried it internally on an outside facing brick wall with dabbed plasterboard internally and said the wall is noticeably warmer to touch.
I do have 2 questions :
1. I think we have fairly new double glazed windows, but freezing cold air comes in at the bottom and sides of the window, where the brown frame ends. How exactly did you stop this ?

2. Corners of the rooms are starting to form black mould both downstairs and upstairs ... Some corners actually have water droplets running down them as the wall is so cold. It's a rented house so I need a realistic option . Thanks all

 

[fernicarry]

I've come across that paint before. It makes some pretty bold claims, but doesn't provide anything in terms of hard numbers like U-value. Paint-on insulation would be a bit of a holy grail and you'd think we'd all be using it if it worked.

I'm not going to bother with the insulated lining paper. I think the effect is probably too small to be worth the hassle of detailing around the extra thickness. I'll work on my air tightness measures first.

Point 1. should really be taken up with your landlord. If he/she is decent enough they will do something. Even if its just caulking the gaps to kill the draft. There might be missing pointing or mastic outside thats letting air leak around the window frame. We noticed a big difference when the mastic was repaired around our windows. If its traditional burnt sand mastic then over time it hardens and falls out. If they are pvc windows then the quality of fitment may be poor. There needs to be an airtight join between the frame and the building fabric for them to perform properly, often done with squirty foam.

Point 2. sounds like you need to encourage some air movement. Assuming the water droplets are condensation then that has to be because of something you are doing inside the property. Cooking, washing, drying, _breathing_, all put moisture into the air and if you don't ventilate adequately it finds the coldest surface and condenses back out again. Glass, tiles, cold corners on outside walls. Which sounds like the opposite of air tightness but its about controlling the ventilation not stopping it completely.

I am a landlord and I have the condensation conversation quite frequently with tenants. When the building is left to its own devices between tenants it stays perfectly dry so that pretty much demonstrates the cause and effect.

 

[philpjuk100]

Our cat Fred loves thermal lining paper and has ripped it to shreds in the spare bedroom!