Interesting Internal Wall

[JeanC]

Hello.
We are renovating what we believe is a 1700s Devon longhouse/farmhouse and have removed all the plaster from the downstairs walls but we found this beautiful wall, has anyone any ideas why it was built like this? It is the only solid wall in the house, the others were lath and plaster. The stones are very loose but we would like to preserve it if we can.

 

[Itchinfilth]

Do you mean preserve as in leave in place (I wouldn't consider removal st all) or preserve as in leave displayed? Given the coarse random stone, historically this wall was never intended to be on display like this and would have been plastered. I'm not saying this is what you should do, I'm simply providing some context

 

[JeanC]

Do you mean preserve as in leave in place (I wouldn't consider removal st all) or preserve as in leave displayed? Given the coarse random stone, historically this wall was never intended to be on display like this and would have been plastered. I'm not saying this is what you should do, I'm simply providing some context

Thank you and Yes, we would like to leave it on display but perhaps remove a section of stone at a time and refit it and point it in the hope it would be ok as currently it is very loose. It is a beautiful wall.

 

[Gothichome]

Just a question for those in the know, when Jean mentioned 1700 long house. Would this have been built with the house on one end and an animal pen at the other? It occurs to me that if this is so, the wall in question may have been a barn type door that has been filled in.

 

[JeanC]

Just a question for those in the know, when Jean mentioned 1700 long house. Would this have been built with the house on one end and an animal pen at the other? It occurs to me that if this is so, the wall in question may have been a barn type door that has been filled in.

The house has been messed about with a lot including an awful 1970s extension and bay windows, this wall is in the living room which has a fireplace with a bread oven, the other end of the house had an inglenook fireplace which was removed in the 80s. Above the living room is a bedroom which has a fireplace.
On the back wall of the house there is a slight curve in the wall upstairs and downstairs. It’s all interesting.

 

[Kearn]

View attachment 16224Hello.
We are renovating what we believe is a 1700s Devon longhouse/farmhouse and have removed all the plaster from the downstairs walls but we found this beautiful wall, has anyone any ideas why it was built like this? It is the only solid wall in the house, the others were lath and plaster. The stones are very loose but we would like to preserve it if we can.

Lath and plaster is much younger. So it was either built later, or replaced, not from the same age as this section.

This shouldn’t be left on show, was never designed to be and needs repointing / daubing to fill gaps and replastering to stabilise it all.

It’s simply a way of building a stone wall without actually having to build a structural, thick stone wall. It’s a basic frame with stone infill.

 

[Cubist]

I'm assuming that the horizontal members of the timber frame in that wall are supporting the stonework immediately above them? If that's the case then I would be very cautious about disturbing and further weakening those stones. The construction pattern of the frame suggests that individual timber members were inserted horizontally between the posts/studs after the outer frame was constructed and perhaps as the stonework was installed. Given that the posts/studs seem to be rather narrow. I would be concerned that these may have been simply side-nailed through the posts/studs rather than mortice and tenoned. If I am right there is a fair chance that the nails may have rusted out and the stonework could become unstable and perhaps collapse if you were to remove any significant part of it.

In my opinion you should carefully examine all the joints between all of the timbers to ensure that they are properly and effectively connected. Also, you should carefully examine the material originally used to bond those stones as it may not be capable of sustaining exposure to atmosphere even indoors.

 

[CliffordPope]

That kind of construction seems to have had a long time span. Our house is nothing like as old as yours (c 1875) and has a variety of types of internal wall construction. Most are traditional lath and plaster, hollow inside, but some appear to be like yours with stone infilling.
What was the purpose of building a lath and plaster wall like that? To make it load-bearing? To reduce sound transmission?

 

[stuart45]

You often find stud walls with a brick infill in Victorian houses. The bricks normally laid on edge to form a 3 inch wall. As you thought, it was either sound proofing, or it was also done for extra fire resistance.

 

[s27y]

I have a same wall on the not good side of the house (1840-1850 mid-terrace). The front room have lath and plaster.
The old builder would fill this wall with all kind of the rubbish they have, broken brick, stone etc.
I will upload a photo later.

I wouldn't show this wall. I'd lime plaster it, this kind of wall is great for put sockets on.

 

[CliffordPope]

Ours appear to be filled with local stone - anything reasonably flat that will fit in the gap. There's loads of it just lying around in the fields, and any garden digging turns up more. My guess is they fixed the laths to one side, then piled in the stones with a dollop of mortar under each, nailed on the other side of laths, and then plastered up. The plaster squidging through the gaps would help to stabilise the stonework.
It's not much help when fixing things , because you never know whether you are going to hit a hard rock at 1/2" or a gap and the drill goes right through the wall. It's firmest if you can locate a bit of the studding. The stones tend to be loose, or work loose when you try and drill them.

The lowest horizontal timber was just resting on the soil, which was wet from the raised soil and rock level outside. As it rotted at the base the wall had gradually stopped giving much support to the upstairs floor joists, so the floor has dropped at least half an inch, as judged by the misaligned skirting board in the room above. It's all now stabilised, but knocking in a picture hook often dislodges a cascade of loose rubble inside the wall.

 

[JeanC]

I have a same wall on the not good side of the house (1840-1850 mid-terrace). The front room have lath and plaster.
The old builder would fill this wall with all kind of the rubbish they have, broken brick, stone etc.
I will upload a photo later.

I wouldn't show this wall. I'd lime plaster it, this kind of wall is great for put sockets on.

Would love to see the photo