Is sh*t necessary for daub?

[Becka]

I have some patches of daub to repair and am trying to work out a suitable recipe.. looking at whats there I can definatly see straw, mud and its of what looks like either lime or chalk (very likely the latter as it'd be in the soil round here) and I'm wondering if thats all thats needed? I know manure is often included but have seen conflicting reports as to whether its a necessary ingrediant or an accidental addition from recycling the straw.. Only free animal waste I could get hold of is from a friends rabbits (which are on hay, would this matter? ) which I'm sure she'd be glad to be rid of if it were required/ was suitable..

 

[Ian Bond]

If you really want to Do It Yourself, Becka, here's a link to a site with a useful description:

http://www.periodproperty.co.uk/article040.htm

Erm, maybe I should re-phrase that!

I did see a Fred Dibnah programme which showed the repair of a timber framed building. They did use fresh cow manure that had been collected in a bucket that morning, mixed with lime, straw, etc. It certainly seemed to add colour to the mix, and no doubt made it workable, if rather smelly.

...I'll get me coat.

 

[Becka]

doh, didn't realise there was a bit on site.. do it myself in the most literal sense, I think not.. reassuringly no mention of poo in that recipe , think i saw the same Fred Dibnah programme or similar, lots of people looking uncomfortable treading cow pats into mud in bare feet.. wasn't sure if it was supposed to be advantageous, or just more authentic ( and better tv no doubt..)

 

[biffvernon]

I've been using this mixture recently:

six parts unwashed sand
one part subsoil - remove one spade's depth and use what's below that
one part dry bagged hydrated lime from nearest builders' merchant
straw - a bucketful per large wheelbarrow of mortar

Mix the sand, earth and lime dry as its easier to mix thoroughly than when wet. Then add water to make it the right texture. Then add the straw and find you need to add a little more water. If you add the straw at an earlier stage it is much harder to mix.

I think this recipe is suitable for a wide variety of uses, from the base coats of fine plaster to straw bale and cob building and embedding one's bath (see another thread).

 

[CHRIS]

I saw some sheep on the side of the road near Dunmow this morning!!

dont be shy sneek in under the cover of darkness and get a bucket full

 

[skier-hughes]

one part subsoil - remove one spade's depth and use what's below that

If I go down one spade depth I just hit clay

 

[tumbledown]

I have some wattle and daub panels to repair myself. I've chipped the cement cover off from the inside, and found that although the top of the panels are in pretty good nick, the bottom 3 foot is more or less gone, and the bottom foot or so of the wattle has just rotted away. I'm not sure how to repair them really. At the bottom all that is left is the exterior cement render. I'm a bit afraid that if I chip off the render from outside the reminder of the panel will just fall out.

Do you think that it would be possible to repair the wattle and daub from the inside, and then chip of the exterior cement when it has dried?

My thoughts were that it may not ever dry properly with the cement render on one side, but someone suggested to me that I could drill a series of small holes in the cement. This would then allow some support for the new daub and also allow some air to get to it and let it dry.

I'd appreciate a few thoughts on this.

 

[biffvernon]

If I go down one spade depth I just hit clay

That would be just perfect. Use it.

 

[biffvernon]

Tumbledown, take a look in a big garden centre for 'natrual screen'. You can get rolls of willow and reed and other stuff, that would make a good base for patching old wattle. Otherwise its just a matter of poking new sticks into where the old ones have rotted.
One way or another I think you should aim at getting rid of the cement.

 

[dmcquade]

I watched a programme recently in which they mentioned that manure was in the mix because workers used to throw straw in a wet muddy part of the field and let the cattle trample it in. Dung was just coincidental to requirements.

All the best.

David

 

[NT]

> Is sh*t necessary for daub?

absolutely Becka, if you dont sht in your daub its just not authentic

NT

 

[tumbledown]

I just wondered that if it was just damaged at the bottom of the panel, maybe just shoving a couple of cob bricks in there and lime plastering over might do the job?

 

[Becka]

think I'll leave my repairs till I dig my pond if I need subsoil.. tho thats likely to potentially contain plenty of sh*t.. an old map of the town shows the square (previously containing 16 houses) with 16 smaller structures in the centre of the square where the gardens are now, which I can only assume were the privies (no running water in my little slum for another 30 years) so digging down could be full of potentially unpleasant surprises.. tho why a town map would chose to show these amenities is beyond me but I can't think what else it'd be (was trying to get a link/pic as it's on the old-maps database I think, but their server is down at the moment) any ideas?

 

[NT]

To be honest Becka if you crapped in the mixer you could get into trouble with environmental health, fall out with your nighbours, get arrested by the police and see your picture posted in the local paper.

NT

 

[worms]

Interesting comments on straw/dung combinations. Two thoughts: Firstly I'm sure most cattle farms (and maybe some horse owners) would be happy to let you take away some of the straw from housed animals. Of course this is the wrong time to be looking since nearly everything is outside now.

Secondly, I would have thought that straw that had already been used in this way might have been a more natural source for building work in the past - why collect straw and dung separately if there was a ready mixed source to be mucked out? I also wonder if the effect of the urine and trampling from housed cattle won't have made a softer and more workable blend - the ammonia in the urine will have broken down some of the lignin in the straw.

 

[biffvernon]

the ammonia in the urine will have broken down some of the lignin in the straw.

If that's the case, surely it's a bad thing. You want the lignin to stay intact because thats what gives the strength to the plaster or cob.
Gervase, did you find a reason why cow poo was good for chimney lining? Is it just that it sticks on well.

 

[worms]

I would imagine that you want both strength and flexibility. Dry straw is very brittle. I would think urine treatment might work a bit like retting flax for linen or sisal for string. Slightly softened straw would also be a lot easier to work with.

 

[tumbledown]

I've been using this mixture recently:

six parts unwashed sand
one part subsoil - remove one spade's depth and use what's below that
one part dry bagged hydrated lime from nearest builders' merchant
straw - a bucketful per large wheelbarrow of mortar

Do you really need that much sand? It seems, well, a bit sandy!

 

[biffvernon]

Sand/soil/lime in a 6:1:1 ratio gives 3:1 coarse to fine. Very approximately, this allows the sand grains to just touch each other, transferring loads through the strong quartz grains, while the spaces are filled with fines, which stops the sand grains shifting. The lime fixes it more firmly than just soil would.
If you used less sand there would be an excess of fine material and the resulting mortar would be weaker.
And where my back garden is concerned sand costs nothing. The more I use the bigger the fishpond grows.

 

[Gervase]

Gervase, did you find a reason why cow poo was good for chimney lining? Is it just that it sticks on well.

I haven't found a definitive reason, but it seems to be more to do with a reaction between the lime and some constituent of the dung that produces a surface that's impervious to oils, tar, acid and all sorts of things that would otherwise knacker ordinary lime plaster.
I suspect there's a protein involved in the mucous being modified by the strongly alkaline lime, but amn't enough of a chemist to work out exactly what happens (and life presents enough mysteries without worrying about the qualties of poo!)