Kitchen design considerations

[Craig89]

Hello all

I'm currently fitting all of my switch and socket back boxes ready for wiring and I'm wondering about the ones between the kitchen worktop and wall units. As I understand it normally the bottom of the wall units are around 500mm above the worktop, is this correct?

Now because I have 9ft ceilings would this change at all? I'm guessing not as it would just make putting stuff in and out of the cupboards more difficult.

Any advise on positioning the sockets height wise, half way between worktop and wall unit?

Thanks, Craig

 

[Flyfisher]

The bottom of our kitchen wall units are 18 inches (about 460mm) above the worktop and the bottom of the switches and sockets are 6 inches above the worktop.

I'm not aware of any regulations regarding such measurements so just do whatever is most convenient and/or aesthetic.

 

[Abi Cott]

There are regulations regarding the wall units closest to the hob.
The company I design kitchens for has quite tall larder units (2198mm) so our standard wall units end up 1458mm above the floor. That's higher than a lot in the kitchen industry. However it means I can plan units right up to (but not overhanging) the hob.

I know some of the competition have to allow a space on either side of the hob (to comply with building regs) because their larder units are shorter and hence their wall units are fitted lower as standard, but I don't know what the lower threshold is.

I do know that for many shorter chefs, 5'5" or below a height to the base of the wall unit of 1358mm is far more practical, and I often accommodate this.

With regards to sockets I'm not familiar with the specific building regs, but halfway sounds right. Again the lateral distance to hob and probably lateral distance to the tap (source of water can be broadly translated as the tap not the bowl of the sink ) could be important.

Hope that helps

 

[Owain]

My sockets are about 15" bottom above worktop (well they would be if I had worktop... haven't got round to that bit yet, only been a couple of years)

The higher they are within reason, the less you knock jars and utensils over when reaching for them

Don't forget under cabinet striplighting ...

 

[Flyfisher]

I know some of the competition have to allow a space on either side of the hob (to comply with building regs) because their larder units are shorter and hence their wall units are fitted lower as standard, but I don't know what the lower threshold is.

When we had a new kitchen installed in a new extension the building regs certainly covered the usual construction issues and the new electrics (fed from a completely new, additional consumer unit) but the only aspect of the kitchen itself that the building inspector was interested in was to ensure there was an extractor above the hob. I know there are a lot of 'standards' relating to kitchens and fitted applicances (for obvious reasons) but didn't think these were also actual regulations. I did a quick search to find anything relating to kitchen unit building regs but could only find this, which mentions various potential pitfalls but nothing about kitchen unit sizing or positioning (but it was a very quick search):
https://www.architectsjournal.co.uk/opinion/the-regs-dont-get-your-fingers-burnt-on-a-kitchen-project/10031324.article

 

[Abi Cott]

I know some of the competition have to allow a space on either side of the hob (to comply with building regs) because their larder units are shorter and hence their wall units are fitted lower as standard, but I don't know what the lower threshold is.

When we had a new kitchen installed in a new extension the building regs certainly covered the usual construction issues and the new electrics (fed from a completely new, additional consumer unit) but the only aspect of the kitchen itself that the building inspector was interested in was to ensure there was an extractor above the hob. I know there are a lot of 'standards' relating to kitchens and fitted applicances (for obvious reasons) but didn't think these were also actual regulations. I did a quick search to find anything relating to kitchen unit building regs but could only find this, which mentions various potential pitfalls but nothing about kitchen unit sizing or positioning (but it was a very quick search):
https://www.architectsjournal.co.uk/opinion/the-regs-dont-get-your-fingers-burnt-on-a-kitchen-project/10031324.article

Your gap is 460ish mm which I suspect is above the threshold to get anyone interested. If I was forced to guess I'd say it's 400-450mm ish and I can eyeball to below 50mm so I'd guess building inspectors can too.

Of course you might also have no wall units tight up to the sides of your cooker hood. Which makes the question totally unimportant.

I was trying to avoid the chore of going and looking it up, because it's my birthday today, but the oojamawotsit has gone to bed so I'll see if I can find it for you.

 

[Abi Cott]

Try this

"Any wall units that are either side of the hood must be at least 366mm above."


https://www.gascookersinstallation.co.uk/gas-cooker-regulations/

Most of the other numbers make sense based on the regs I'm familiar with. So I'm moderately confident it's quoting the right sort of stuff. Admittedly I know some of those numbers are different for an induction hob rather than gas, so this reg might vary due to that as well.

My wall units are so high I don't have to worry about it, so it's not part of my normal working concerns. So I'm not "up" on it, I just know it's a 'thing' for some of my competition

 

[Flyfisher]

Ah, we have an induction hob so perhaps that's why the building inspector didn't seem interested, even though there are units to each side of the hob extractor unit.

This shows the kitchen in question - not an ideal angle but should give a basic idea:

 

[Abi Cott]

Nice kitchen love the red, but that's kinda my thing

 

[Craig89]

Thanks for the advise. I think I will put my sockets at around 300mm above worktop, this way then they will be obviously above centre line instead of trying to guess where the centre will be without knowing what kitchen we will fit.

Yes I will be putting in a switch and wiring in for under cabinet lighting too.

Thanks, Craig

 

[Flyfisher]

Nice kitchen love the red, but that's kinda my thing

Thanks. Little Greene ‘Drummond’.

 

[Flyfisher]

Thanks for the advise. I think I will put my sockets at around 300mm above worktop, this way then they will be obviously above centre line instead of trying to guess where the centre will be without knowing what kitchen we will fit.

While Owain is absolutely right about plugs and switches becoming obscured by kitchen paraphernalia if placed too close to the worktop, in our case that was precisely the reason for doing so. In the photo, the outlet near the cooker is behind a microwave oven and the outlet near the window if for a kettle, which is always plugged in so access is not an issue. The various jars etc then hide these outlets. The adjacent switches are to isolate the various integrated units so rarely need to be accessed anyway. The island unit also has sockets and these are the ones we use when we need more frequent access for things like mixers, phone chargers etc.

I’m not suggesting our way is the ‘right’ way, just that much depends on how you anticipate using the kitchen and what other small plug-in appliances you have.

 

[MatthewC]

Just remember that you can hardly have too many sockets in a kitchen. We thought we had got enough but now we have the coffee machine, the radio, the phone and the kettle all from one double socket with a pair of adapters. This happened because we thought a pair in each corner would be sufficient .

Well done for remembering the under cabinet lighting - we forgot that and I had to fit it later - it really is essential. We also forgot to light the sink etc; well, it is beside the window but we forgot that sometimes you use the sink when it's night! :lol:

However, we do have a switch on one wall which appears to operate nothing at all, and we cannot recall what the plan was before we made a last minute change! :?

 

[Tom-H]

While Owain is absolutely right about plugs and switches becoming obscured by kitchen paraphernalia if placed too close to the worktop, in our case that was precisely the reason for doing so. In the photo, the outlet near the cooker is behind a microwave oven and the outlet near the window if for a kettle, which is always plugged in so access is not an issue. The various jars etc then hide these outlets. The adjacent switches are to isolate the various integrated units so rarely need to be accessed anyway. The island unit also has sockets and these are the ones we use when we need more frequent access for things like mixers, phone chargers etc.

I’m not suggesting our way is the ‘right’ way, just that much depends on how you anticipate using the kitchen and what other small plug-in appliances you have.

I’ve attended lots of calls outs due to none working appliances which turned out to be when they pushed there toaster back it had pushed the switch for there fridge into the off position. :lol:

On the same topic I would try and minimise the use of the isolation switches for integrated appliances and instead place the outlets for them in the adjacent cupboard, I used to always fit them as standard however have now stopped as they look very cluttered and the regulations don’t actually require them to be fitted.

 

[Abi Cott]

On the same topic I would try and minimise the use of the isolation switches for integrated appliances and instead place the outlets for them in the adjacent cupboard, I used to always fit them as standard however have now stopped as they look very cluttered and the regulations don’t actually require them to be fitted.

That's interesting, I'm guessing it's a change to the regs, because I'm sure at one point it was required. Or is it a question of the wording and a more liberal interpretation of the word "accessible". Given they seem to move the goalposts every April I don't try to remember the exact details of the regs, but an approximate understanding is useful for work.

 

[a twig]

I'd imagine it's due to the lower power of most modern devices not requiring anything greater than 13A these days

. . . the means of a suitable readily accessible double pole switch with a contact gap of at least 3mm. Depending on the maximum demand of the electrical appliance the means of local isolation could be a 13 amp switch fused spur, 13A plug and socket outlet or a 20 amp double pole isolator.

According to the table on page 182 of BS7671 18th edition the following can be used for isolation as long as the device is suitable for on-load isolation:
​

Plug and switched socket-outlet to BS 1363-1, BS 1363-2
Plug and socket-outlet to BS 5733
Switched fused connection unit to BS 1363-4
Cooker control unit switch to BS 4177

 

[Flyfisher]

It certainly seems that the interpretation of 'readily accessible' can vary. The isolation switches for our fixed appliances (cooker, hob, extractor fan) are above the worktop but the socket outlets for the dishwasher and waste disposal are inside a cupboard under the worktop. All duly signed off.

Perhaps it doesn't really matter as 'isolation' usually means making the appliance safe in case of repairs etc rather than for use in an emergency, where the emphasis is usually on running to safety!

 

[Tom-H]

It’s always been regarded as good practice to fit a fused spur/double pole switch if the socket outlet is behind for example a fridge, however a lot of electricians have now abandoned this method for the reasons I said before and on a period property the less switches the better!

If you fit the socket outlet in the adjacent cupboard then the appliance can be simply unplugged and will be safely isolated. The regs and usually the manufacturers instructions do require a form of isolation but this way still meets that criteria.

The isolation can actually be provided solely from the MCB at the consumer unit as this is rated for functional switching and emergency switching meaning that the need for isolation has already been satisfied!

Obviously there is nothing wrong with using an local isolator instead.

As for it being accessible, your right that this is down to interpretation but there isn’t any regulation excluding this.