Lining paper on lime plaster walls

[my_name_is_slim_daisy]

Hello all

I recently opted to cover slightly damaged lime plaster walls with Grade 1200 lining paper - such a clumsy move as some parts look botched, because the paper was so difficult to work with.

The problem is mainly around internal/external corners, narrow bits where windows meet and intricate architraves.

I’m hoping I can salvage it and make it look seamless, so I decided to use HB42 Ultimate Pro-finish decorators caulk to fill in the craggy bits, and then paint over it when I’m ready to paint the walls. I’m just wondering if anyone has done this before? From my research it looks like I can paint directly over the caulk with Matt emulsion. I am slightly worried though that the paint might peel over the caulk. Also will the paint finish look even or will it be easy to spot where I’ve painted over caulk?

Any advice would be much appreciated

 

[fernicarry]

I use fine filler to cover any imperfections in the joins between lining paper. A gentle sand with 180 grit back to flush and the join is pretty much invisible. I do use caulk around the edges where it meets the woodwork. The trouble with caulk is that it generally doesn't sand and can leave a thin film on the surface of the paper so you have to be quite conscientious in tooling and sponging it before it dries.

I've never really gotten the hang of the pull back the paper and cut with scissors technique so I nearly always end up trimming in situ using a steel edge and a very sharp knife. New blade for every cut (I keep the barely used blades in a tub for general use). It helps if you remove all the previous layers of caulk and filler around the edges before starting to paper. They usually come off with the steamer anyway. That way you have the best chance of a getting tight into the corner for a neat edge. The sharper the join between elements the better the paint line will be.

Decorators caulk can definitely be overpainted, its silicone based ones that paint won't stick to. Not sure what you mean by "craggy" bits. Is the paper not lying flat? I think I'd try painting a trial area first to see if you are happy with the finish. If not, well, lining paper is very cheap stuff if you have to do it over again...

Shine a work light obliquely over the surface to highlight the imperfections. It will look like the surface of the moon, even the good bits, but it will highlight the bits that need improvement. Also helps to see the result in natural light which is getting scarcer at this time of year. I thought I'd done a great job in the hallway but it was in the winter when the sun wasn't reaching the back window. Now when I see it in the summer I realise its not quite as good as I'd like. But so long as no one else comments then that's all that matters.

 

[my_name_is_slim_daisy]

Thanks @fernicarry . Seems you have a solid process for wallpapering! I’m only learning now to replace the blade between each cut out of interest what knife/blade do you recommend? I’ve been using the Olfa MT-1.

Craggy wasn’t the best way to describe the walls. It’s the gaps between the wallpapers that I’m trying to fill. They range between 1mm to 5mm. There was quite a lot of snagging as the paper was thick and damp. I will need to sand so it seems like fine filler is the better option. Have you been able to paint over the filler without needing to use primer? I’m hoping to paint straight over it with Matt emulsion.

Any tried and tested filler you can recommend? Seems like Toupret Fine Surface filler or Polyfilla fine surface might be OK?

 

[fernicarry]

My technique is still evolving and I can still struggle to get the joins to butt up against each other tightly. The paper shrinks slightly as it dries so its almost inevitable that slight gaps open up but they are usually fine enough for paint to fill. The paper will stretch a bit to accommodate the shape of the wall if you work it with a big brush. Better to spend more time on the prep and get the lumps and bumps out of the wall first. Previously filled or repaired areas tend to be prime offenders for not following the local curvature of the wall.

5mm however is quite a lot... I had gaps like that when doing a sloping ceiling because the curve where it joined the main ceiling was never the same in any two places so the paper would shoot off at a different angle each time as you went around the curve. In places I cut long thin wedges of paper and pasted those in place to reduce the area that needed filling. That one was hard work but got there in the end.

I don't think you necessarily need undercoat onto new paper. I generally only use it if there is a mixture of new and old paper because of the colour difference. It might be recommended to reduce the suction of the new paper though. I do usually go over the joins in the paper same time as I cut in around the edges mainly to get an idea of whether they need more prep work. The filler can show through as a difference in texture as well (it'll be smoother than the surface of the paper) so maybe plan for an extra top coat.

I generally use Toupret Joint and Skim. Its very fine and intended to be sanded and painted. Knife-wise its just a folding knife with a stanley style blade. I bought a pack of 100 blades thinking they'd last a lifetime and its nearly run out! Hopefully not an omen...

 

[my_name_is_slim_daisy]

You sound like a pro! The more and more I revisit the room, the worse it looks! Quite a few mm gaps. I blame the knife and a lack of experience! I will upload a picture later tonight

I didn’t know the wallpaper has a bit of stretch. I’ll keep that in mind for the next room I wallpaper, thanks for sharing.

Prep was actually ok, I filled and sanded, making sure the filling was flush with the wall. Sockets were a nightmare to fix because of the electricians chasing - ended up removing all the sockets before reconstructing the area.

Before I start painting, I’m wondering if you think the following seems like a reasonable approach to try and salvage what I can:

Fill all the gaps with Toupret and then sand. Since you mentioned that the paper will have some suction/it’s porous, I did some reading. Apparently before painting, I should consider either a mist coat (70:30 ratio of emulsion:water) or use something like Zinsser Gardz, Dulux Trade Drywall Primer Sealer or Leyland Trade Acrylic Primer Sealer. After this has settled I can then apply a couple of coats of Matt emulsion. I am being cautious about this because I love my lime plaster walls, even if I have to cover them up behind lining paper.

Wow, 100 blades nearly gone… sounds like the next Kill Bill chapter! The only thing my dull blades did well was cut through my patience

 

[fernicarry]

For external facing walls you should use breathable paints and undercoats. The products you mention don't sound especially breathable. If you can find data sheets for them check for the "sd" value if given which should be 1.0 or less. I've been using F&B Estate emulsion and their undercoat both of which are thought of as breathable (some on this forum may disagree...).

 

[Ashville87]

We recently lining papered our hall using Wallrock paper and ready mix paste. The thicker grade stuff is good to use. It’s paste the wall so a bit easier than fighting with soggy paper. I got a knife with snap off blades which I found better than Stanley blades. I caulk round all edges where paper meets woodwork and cornice and internal corners of walls. Agree that a fine filler will sort out the joins, you’ll probably get away with the 5mm gaps with a decent fill. The advice I’ve always followed is to mist coat first.

 

[my_name_is_slim_daisy]

Thanks for all your responses, much appreciated and very reassuring!

I had another look and the biggest gap I found is ~3-4mm (see attached picture).

I feel a bit silly asking but I’ve already made a few avoidable mistakes. If I intend to use an F&B paint for the topcoat, should I also use the same F&B paint for the mist coat? Or can I use a cheaper Matt emulsion for mist coating?

@Ashville87 I’m also using snap off blades now, but I’m changing them every few cuts…. madness!

 

[Stevers]

My father was a dab hand at papering and he would paste the paper for a drop, carefully fold it and hang it over a chair back to 'relax' (soak) and then paste and carefully fold the next, after which he would put the first one up that he'd pasted, followed by the second. In his pomp he would do them three at a time - it was quite something to watch! This gives enough time for the paste to soak into the paper so that when it goes on the wall it tightens as it dries which definitely helps. You need to establish a truly straight line for the first drop (away from the corner) on each wall or the following gaps will go swiftly downhill, and I seem to remember that you should work away from windows rather than towards them.

In that last post I can see that you haven't lapped and cut into the corner which is how I was shown how to do it. A 'torn edge' on the lower layer is a trick that can make those necessary overlaps into corners less obvious.

 

[my_name_is_slim_daisy]

@Stevers Mastery, in any form, is magnetic. Your dad sounds like the consultant I need! Thanks for sharing some tips. If you could recommend any YouTube videos, that would be much appreciated. Most of the videos I watched involved straight lines and right angles.. whereas my room has all sorts of weird shapes.

I did try to start off with a straight line on each wall. I used a spirit leveller, a laser level… and then I eventually I started questioning whether straight lines exist!

My main difficulties started with the chimney breast which starts with an internal corner, then an external corner… theeeennn another external corner and finishing off with an internal corner. I think somewhere here I didn’t follow the 10.5/20.5mm rule for internal and external corners.

Realising I have 3 more rooms to wallpaper, which means 3 more chimney breasts

 

[fernicarry]

Used to be that wallpapering was an essential life skill! I remember my father doing battle with the Anaglypta back in the day when every wall would have had a patterned paper. Its been one of the last home improvement skills I've had to pick up.

Torn edge, I'll need to remember that. I've been sanding back the hard edge on the lower piece and/or feathering with filler but that adds extra time. Its a big ask for the next drop to line up after going around a corner. I go horizontally and if its not to far round the corner to a door frame or such like I do try to do it in a oner but that can backfire and it needs to be sliced open and filled.

I think for a chimney breast I'd work from the middle outwards so that you only had to deal with one outside corner before breaking at the inside corner. The one and only time I've done a patterned paper I measured and cut the last drop dry on the table so that it sat neatly into the corner avoiding the need to trust my scissor skills after it was on the wall.

 

[Stevers]

Mastery, in any form, is magnetic.

My father's family were shopkeepers somewhat inclined to live beyond their means and would always engage fully qualified tradesmen (no doubt they were also customers) for what would now be considered DIY tasks. As a teenager my father was only to happy to help them and learn everything he could, collecting skills and knowledge of the 'proper' way to do things (gardening, plumbing, decorating), that proved incredibly useful for his (and my) more straitened circumstances! Wallpapering however was his superpower and the results (with us working as a team) are all around me. He also grew his own fruit and veg., baked his own bread, brewed his own beer and double fermented a very superior barley wine - I just wish he was still around!