Need recommendation for Bakelite dolly

[JoceAndChris]

After three and a half years of soul-searching and agonising we decided on Jim Lawrence antiqued brass dimmer switches for the state rooms and Bakelite dolly switches for the more servanty areas.

Not bought any fake Bakelite yet - can anyone recommend? And is there any point to pattresses?

 

[Andrew Bodenham]

Hi, Joce,

Very important, light switches. One of those interface items, along with door handles, which are a whole tactile, auditory and visual experience in themselves. Modern electrical fittings are utterly souless and look all wrong.

We've installed a number of these:

on home-made oak pattresses. The purpose of the pattress is to cover the point of exit of the wiring from the wall - if you're replacing existing switches that means covering the metal back-box that the faceplate attaches to (assuming that you have recessed mounting boxes). Where necessary you can whack in some serious fastenings throughthe pattress, to cope with loose crumbly walls say, which then get covered up by the switch.

Nice switches these, manufactured by Clipsal. Simple, with a proper clunky action and sound. I got ours from an ebay supplier. Some of the more 'upmarket' repro suppliers charge stupid prices for dolly switches, but these bakelite ones are more realistically priced. Still about 5 times what you'd pay for a 'standard' white MK switch though.

Eventually we'll convert all the rest. Purists might argue that fitting 'mock-old' equipment is dreadful fakery, but to my eyes our bakelite reproductions look so much better.

 

[robgil]

The only country to produce Bakelite is Australia as far as I know.
I put a link in a thread a fair while back.

 

[robgil]

Here is the link,

http://www.palesinstyle.com.au/index.htm

They ship to the UK and last time I checked even with shipping are still cheaper than buying from the UK.

 

[jocelyn plummer]

They'll be fine Joce-- the pattress is good to have as it covers a multitude of sins caused by re wiring etc etc!!

 

[JoceAndChris]

That's a fascinating website with some lovely stuff Rob. However, I wouldn't order from overseas as firstly I'd be worried about returns if the goods were faulty, I'd be worried about a tax charge, and lastly where possible it's good to support British-made. ( hence our choice of Jim Lawrence, who don't do Bakelite. )

Fake Bakelite will be fine. I so agree with Andrew that light switches, and of course quality lighting, are hugely important in creating a refined and serene atmosphere. We bought fake "Georgian" Srewfix gold coloured switches and sockets three years ago, and now the switches are discoloured, streaky, and look dreadful. So please don't buy these nasty products - white plastic is better than them. The Jim Lawrence on the other hand, I can't fault them, and antiqued brass blends into striking coloured wallpapers in a way white plastic does not.

Thanks for the explanation on pattresses. For this particular case I don't think we'll need one as we're creating lighting where there was none ( putting a light in the cupboard under the stairs). There's a lovely old Bakelite knob on the inside of the door and a lock with a nice Norwich stamp so I think it's important to keep the fittings in the same vein. The whole cupboard is just charming, with ancient flagstone floor, wobbly lime plaster, characterful wormy wood. Will put up some before and after pics.

Thanks very much for the posts!

 

[vicky whitworth]

Hi Jose, we replaced all our modern white plastic switches with fake bakerlite dollies from Bromleigh. We chose black switches on mid-oak patresses. We are delighted with them, have never had a problem with any of them and they have been fitted for more than three years, and Bromleigh (who I think are now in Cornwall) were prompt and efficient. They have been much admired and I think make a huge difference to creating a 'period' ambience. I'd have preferred no patresses but I understand they cover the large metal box that drops into the wall holding all the electrical gubbins so are pretty unavoidable with modern wiring. Now they are installed I don't mind them at all.

 

[vicky whitworth]

Jose, sorry, I have double-checked and our switches are actually dark brown not black.

 

[JoceAndChris]

Thanks so much Vicky. Just ordered one, without pattress. ( Chris saying surface mounting doesn't require one - basically, he's using trunking because it's inside a cupboard - wouldn't tolerate trunking in a main room)

£20 seems a lot for one switch but it's a small drop in the ocean of the lovely moneypit house I suppose.

 

[piper]

Try The Period House Shops - branches in Shrewsbury, Ludlow and Warwick, plus on-line ordering.
They have oak pattresses too.
http://www.periodhouseshops.com/ (usual disclaimers)

I always wander in on the way up the Cop in Shrewsbury, when I'm there visiting my mother. The full name of the street is Wyle Cop, but real Salopians never call it that. Apparently, Shrewsbury is one of the towns (like York) well-known for it's strange street names, but as I was born and grew up there, I never thought there was anything unusual in them.

 

[piper]

P.S. The shop is an Alladin's cave of stuff that Joce would love - you can even get some authentic moleskin trousers for Chris.

 

[Feltwell]

We bought fake "Georgian" Srewfix gold coloured switches and sockets three years ago, and now the switches are discoloured, streaky, and look dreadful. So please don't buy these nasty products - white plastic is better than them.

I'm not personally a fan at all of "Georgian" brass electrical accessories, but if they are your thing and you want polished brass then don't go for the cheap ones, they are stamped plated steel and are not lacquered and will go tatty as Joce found. Go for slightly more expensive ones that are cast brass and are lacquered and they will be fine, and nowhere near as expensive as the (without question much nicer) Jim Lawrence items.

If "Georgian" are your thing then I'd suggest these are OK and not that expensive - cast brass, lacquered, and no plastic on the switch surrounds which makes them look a lot better than most other brands. Plastic inserts cannot be avoided on the sockets where the plug pins go in, for obvious reasons - you can have them in white or black on these. Made by my ex-employer, available through most "trade" type electrical wholesalers, not through retailers.

http://www.bgelectrical.co.uk/Brass_Georgian.html

They are regrettably made in China, like the vast vast majority of electrical accessories. Other brands are available etc etc, I thought OK to post up now as I have no ties to that company any more. Personally I'd like to look at Jim Lawrence or similar as it so much nicer, but to do a whole house in that would be cripplingly expensive.

We're putting these in most rooms to replace a variety of very old and grotty white plastic - stainless steel but with grey rather than the white inserts as pictured. Why? I think they are slightly less obtrusive than white plastic, plus I got them for free.

http://www.bgelectrical.co.uk/Nexus_Metal.html#

If I was paying then for all but the principal rooms I think I'd go for MK brand white plastic to be honest, it's the nicest of the white plastic ranges and is one of the best quality as well. For the principal rooms we've got small antiqued brass toggle switches on a stained ash backplate, carrying on from what the previous owner started. They're nice but very pricey, but you can get sockets to match. I like the bakelite dollys a lot, but what do you do for the sockets then?

It's one of those things that is completely down to personal taste I guess, as whatever you do is "fake" by definition for the vast majority of our homes!

 

[Feltwell]

Try The Period House Shops - branches in Shrewsbury, Ludlow and Warwick, plus on-line ordering.
They have oak pattresses too.
http://www.periodhouseshops.com/ (usual disclaimers)

I always wander in on the way up the Cop in Shrewsbury, when I'm there visiting my mother. The full name of the street is Wyle Cop, but real Salopians never call it that. Apparently, Shrewsbury is one of the towns (like York) well-known for it's strange street names, but as I was born and grew up there, I never thought there was anything unusual in them.

It's a very nice shop but only enter if you have very deep pockets! Nice to browse in but to be honest I tend to look for ideas in there and then buy the same item elsewhere at a much cheaper price. Some of their stuff is outrageously expensive, I've seen curtain poles in there at 3 times the price I paid direct to a blacksmith for the same items.

Street names - I think Grope Lane in Shrewsbury is probably the most graphic, and that is a substantially sanitised version of what it was called originally! (Google "Shrewsbury grope lane" for the Wikipedia article on it).

For all the non-Salopians, if you're in this part of the world then Shrewsbury is a lovely town to wander round, as are Ludlow and Much Wenlock.

 

[FamilyWiggs]

For all the non-Salopians, if you're in this part of the world then Shrewsbury is a lovely town to wander round, as are Ludlow and Much Wenlock.

Absolutely - and Ludlow is a real foodie town too.

And if you fancy another similarly alarming google search "how to define an English person" provides a surprising first result, not for the easily offended.

 

[JoceAndChris]

:lol:

The Period House shop does indeed look wonderful Piper - lots of lovely things there.

The lighting on the ground floor has to be palacey so we're using a mix of Jim Lawrence and the Chandelier Company, who provide an excellent service and clearly have very smooth-running shipments and contacts with the makers in China.:

http://www.uk.thechandeliercompany.com/section.php/74/4/small-chandeliers--height-up-to-65-cm-

The cost of the lighting and sockets and switches will probably end up being the single most expensive part of the renovation, although I haven't got to carpets yet, might have to sell the London flat for that! I try and justify it with the thought that we don't have to buy much structural stuff compared to much more serious projects on here. Just bought this and it's woth every penny in my opnion!

http://www.jim-lawrence.co.uk/ProductDetail/5068/Regency-Standard-Lamp

I guess if you're using the fake Bakelite you'd have to go for the brown sockets

http://www.bromleighs.com/acatalog/Brown_Colelction.html

(and personally I find it really helpful when people give direct links to stuff on here rather than worrying overly about naming a company)

 

[vicky whitworth]

Yep, Jose. We've got all Bromleighs brown sockets too. It does cost a fortune but it's worth it.

 

[Andrew Bodenham]

I decided that sockets are less of an issue. They're not at eye level, often tucked away behind furniture or in corners, and you don't come into frequent contact with them as you do with lightswitches. So we just have 'normal' white MK sockets. But I would consider the fakelite ones for a particularly prominent location.

Now ceilling roses - that's another thing altogether. I hate lights in the middle of ceilings anyway, but when they drop from white plastic roses that's just grim. Unfortunately the lovely fakelite ones I've seen have been madly expensive. I did pick up a couple of understated porcelain ones on ebay last year, and these have now been installed complete with repro braided cable and brass lampholders. The electrical connection actually takes place behind the rose using modern fittings, so they're purely cosmetic. Ebay does seem to be a good source of genuine old electrical fittings, which can sometimes be adapted to work with current wiring requirements.