Raised hearths

[Feltwell]

It seems that on any newly installed fire I've seen, be it gas effect or "proper" open fireplace, the hearth is raised a couple of inches off the floor level. I've got that here on my lounge and dining room fireplaces, which are unquestionably modern - a tiled hearth with a pine moulding surround to hide the edges.

All the original fires that I see, the hearth is fitted to be flush with the floorboards. It's like that here with the (non-working) bedroom fireplaces, though the tiles are smashed to bits courtesy of carpet fitters of old with gripper rod nails :evil:

A flush hearth looks so much better. Apparently the reason for the raised hearth is our old friend elf'n'safety:- the boundary of the hearth has to be "visually apparent" to stop any numpties from laying carpet too close to the fire, and "a way of achieving this would be to provide a change in level", according to the regs I've seen online.

So you don't have to have a raised hearth. Has anyone had a recent-ish installation of a fire or stove where they've been able to use a flush hearth, other than doing it yourself on the quiet of course?

 

[plasticpigeon]

You're not going to get someone in are you!

 

[a twig]

Easiest way around it if getting someone in, is to have a small fender style fence at the edge of your tiled hearth as the visually apparent boundary. Bit of wrought iron or whatever. It could always be mysteriously "lost" afterwards *cough*

I'll try and find an example... Ah here...

 

[a twig]

I had to get a new grate made and fitted and some other work done for an existing tiled Victorian fireplace - HETAS installer said that he would only do installation work if he was allowed to make sure it all complied. Fenders did the job - he was happy, all installed and signed - I carefully packed the fenders into the cupboard after he had gone...


EDITED to add:

One more thought - you will need to prove to the installer that the flat hearth is of correct construction - the reason that there's a lot of raised hearths is that it's easier to ensure correct thickness and construction than digging down etc. Appropriate section below

If the hearth is on a combustible floor it must be at least 250mm thick or...
The hearth may be 125mm thick if there is a 50mm air gap underneath it or....
If a stove has been tested and shown to not raise the hearth temperature to over 100 degrees centigrade over ambient room temperature then a 12mm hearth may be used.

If the hearth is on a non-combustible floor (for example a concrete floor slab) then the total thickness of the hearth together with the non-combustible floor must be 250mm or...
125mm thick with a 50mm air gap underneath or....
Again if a stove does not raise the hearth temperature to over 100 degrees centigrade then a 12mm hearth may be used.

 

[JoceAndChris]

Ohhh the modern world.

What happened to humans between 1900 and now, to mean we suddenly need these ridiculous rules?

And I would have thought a raised hearth would actually be something of a trip hazard! Especially as I've virtually dragged my sofa on top of the hearth to be near the fire!

Good luck avoiding it Feltwell!

 

[88v8]

The flat hearth in our dining room had a fixed oak surround.
The gas-coal installer found this perfectly acceptable. But then, I'm usually happy with my efforts.

Ivor

 

[Feltwell]

You're not going to get someone in are you!

Well.....

The dining room fireplace, which is currently a modern pine surround over the builder's opening (which has been tiled internally) with a dog basket grate inside - a setup which manages to be both unattractive and not very functional, not enough draw - the thought was to put a combination fireplace back in, and leave it as an open fire. It will only get used very occasionally but it is nice to have a "real" fire in the house. The debate here is if to bother with lining the chimney - as far as I know there's nothing wrong with it, it's been swept and used with no sign of any problems, so I may just put CO alarms in the rooms through which the flue passes and leave it at that. I'd put this fireplace in myself.

The lounge fireplace is a repro cast iron affair, not a great one but I've seen worse, with a gas coal effect fire which is surprisingly good, being both pretty convincing to look at and it throws some heat out. It's not very well installed though - a visible gas supply pipe for starters, the surround isn't level, and a few other niggles. Here I'd like to change the fireplace back to one that I think is the same as the original (matches the bedroom fireplaces) but keep the gas tray. One thing I won't do is touch gas - one of the few areas I insist on getting a properly qualified person in, for the gas supply side at least. I do know a plumber who I think wouldn't baulk at just reconnecting a gas tray for me, so it may be that I do most of it and just get him to do the gas connection. The original hearth in both rooms isn't quite big enough to meet the current regs, though of course would have been in use for many years with no ill effect. I suspect I'll end up just avoiding getting anyone HETAS qualified in!

 

[Flyfisher]

The flat hearth in our dining room had a fixed oak surround.
The gas-coal installer found this perfectly acceptable. But then, I'm usually happy with my efforts.

Ditto. We had a multifuel stove installed in a bedroom with bare floorboards and the pamment-tiled fireplace has an oak surround, which is all level (within a cm or so) with the floorboards. The HETAS installer was happy to sign it all off.

If the regulations require the transition from floor to hearth to be "visually apparent", what could be more obvious than a change from wooden floorboards to a tiled hearth?

I've no evidence for suggesting this but I wouldn't be surprised if the HETAS training courses don't delve too deeply into the detailed regulations and simply reinforce these 'rules of thumb', such as a hearth having to be raised (and providing a trip hazard as Joce rightly points out!).

Frankly, the only practical thing to do is to talk to a HETAS installer ahead of installation and ask what THEY will be happy to sign off and if they won't then find another one.

 

[plasticpigeon]

Putting in a fireplace is quite easy. I did dig down and lay a hearth of the appropriate thickness but never got anything signed off. I did it properly, building up the back of the opening with bricks, and then backfilling with vermiculite cement and flaunching with sand cement mortar, and sealing around the insert with fire cement, which is more than I can say about a couple of jobs I've seen in friends houses. The CO meter upstairs has never gone off.

 

[paulc]

What happened to humans between 1900 and now, to mean we suddenly need these ridiculous rules?

If it is any consolation, the document being quoted is (I believe) Part J of the Building Regulations - Right at the beginning of the document, it states that it is published to provide guidance, and I understand that buried in the legislation is a clause that says "where appropriate". For hearths, Part J only suggests a change in level, and not that there must be. On that basis, a flush tiled hearth would meet the requirements of a "change in surface", but a fixed raised barrier would be advisable if it has to be inspected.

It is as well that Part J is for guidance, as my constructional hearth does not meet current requirements - The HETAS engineer that signed off my new stove last year didn't even pass comment.


Side note: Having read Part J, installing a liner would appear to be a perfectly acceptable way of repairing a chimney with failed feathers - At the end of the day, I suspect it would be down to the individual building control officer (or HETAS installer) and his opinion when it comes to signing off on an install.

 

[Feltwell]

My original hearths are a little bit undersized for the new regs, so not sure I'd get away with just a fender. I'm loath to make them larger as it means hacking the floor about - mind you, in the dining room the current superimposed raised hearth appears to go over the edge of the floorboards, so what's left underneath is anyone's guess! I suspect the answer will just be to avoid HETAS. As PP said, installing the "real" fire should be easy enough, I'll smoke test the chimney and put CO alarms in but I'm pretty sure it's fine.

I presume if the chimney did need lining then the fireplace needs to come out to do so. I'd just get on and line it if it wasn't for the access problems getting to the top of the stack!

What I'd like to do is get some encaustic tiles for the front part of the hearths. Craven Dunnill Jackfield - a different company to Craven Dunnill now - are just down the road from me at the Jackfield tile museum in the Ironbridge Gorge. They do some truly beautiful tiles - eye wateringly expensive of course, but with only a hearth to do not so bad. I could really fancy some of their encaustic tiles.

http://www.cravendunnill-jackfield.co.uk/products.asp?id=107

 

[plasticpigeon]

At Jackfield museum, the tiles in the entrance making a peacock are incredible.

 

[CliffordPope]

What happened to humans between 1900 and now, to mean we suddenly need these ridiculous rules?

Lots of lovely country houses burned down?

 

[Alex O]

In my Hello / Introduction thread I posted a pic of our recently installed stove. We kept the original hearth and surround, and managed to find a HETAS installer who was happy with a flush hearth as long as he could screw the fender into the floorboards (he did point out that if we wanted to unscrew it after he left that was none of his business...).

I found that by arming myself with a detailed knowledge of Part J I was able to get installers to agree that a flush, constructional hearth was well within regs and quote for what we wanted.

As others have said, part J is a set of guidelines, not rules, and all it says is that the hearth boundary must be visually apparent. Technically you don't even need a fender - going from boards to tiles should be enough. Trouble is, the document gives a change of height as an example of how to make a hearth visually apparent, and a lot of installers now seem to treat this as an immutable law.