Refixing old boards …

[Kearn]

Right, I’m at the stage of actually putting some floorboards back down finally.

I’m deliberating whether screws are an option, given these floors will be bare boards, excepting the odd rug/furniture.

I appreciate the reduction in giving my house more of a hammering, by using screws, as well as potentially a better fixing which is easier to reverse in the future if required.

However, I don’t wish to see shiny screw heads.

Anyone have any pointers to acceptable aesthetic screws, which will equally do the job?

Context - it’s a mix of Georgian pine, Victorian pine, and 400yo wide lapped oak.
Largely these will be sitting back on original, 400yo oak joists (odd repair with younger oak and its tannins).
All have been detailed.
The oak in the attic is more brittle / friable on the top surface than elsewhere in the building, but boards are still very solid.

One for you @Toby Newell as I’m sure I have a memory of you mentioning screwing at some stage…

All thoughts considered, otherwise it’s back to reproduction brads. And the need to redrill new pilot holes.

I’m also now wondering whether in some instances I may be able to reuse the existing hole if I were to screw…

A photo for reference of our current master bedroom…

 

[Toby Newell]

Right, I’m at the stage of actually putting some floorboards back down finally.

I’m deliberating whether screws are an option, given these floors will be bare boards, excepting the odd rug/furniture.

I appreciate the reduction in giving my house more of a hammering, by using screws, as well as potentially a better fixing which is easier to reverse in the future if required.

However, I don’t wish to see shiny screw heads.

Anyone have any pointers to acceptable aesthetic screws, which will equally do the job?

Context - it’s a mix of Georgian pine, Victorian pine, and 400yo wide lapped oak.
Largely these will be sitting back on original, 400yo oak joists (odd repair with younger oak and its tannins).
All have been detailed.
The oak in the attic is more brittle / friable on the top surface than elsewhere in the building, but boards are still very solid.

One for you @Toby Newell as I’m sure I have a memory of you mentioning screwing at some stage…

All thoughts considered, otherwise it’s back to reproduction brads. And the need to redrill new pilot holes.

I’m also now wondering whether in some instances I may be able to reuse the existing hole if I were to screw…

A photo for reference of our current master bedroom…

View attachment 13723

There is a screw fethishist on here, cannot remember if it is cubist... I am sure they will mention machine cut slotted screws.

I don't think my response will be very helpful.

Below is a photo I just took of the reclaimed pine floor, some Georgian, some later, which I am in the process of filling. I used Spax 3.5x45mm T10 t star screws (because fitted overy ply, otherwise I use 55mm)

It's a matter of taste, personally I don't think there are any modern pretty screws, apart from large slotted head ones mentioned.

Your floor would have been fixed with smithed, four sided, rose headed nails, I think anything else would look a little pants.

As you say, cut nail brads, the ones with the little nipples, would look best, although even then it might be nice to black patinate them.

As far as leaving them exposed, that isn't something I ever do, I simply fill afterwards. On the rare occasions I have to make an access hatch and leave screws accessible, I use brass inserts, brass ferrules and slotted brass screws!

I don't think brass slots really have the gumption to be driven into 400 year old oak.

If you decide to use screws and fill them AND want to retain the possibility of digging out the filler and removing them at a later date I would not use the tiny headed 3.5mm ones, even unfilled a third of them might snap when trying to remove them from old oak. I would use a 4.5mm or 5.0mm variety with a T20 or T25 head, you are more likely to get a relaible removal.

This is mostly moot for me again as unless specifically instructed, my floors are bomb proof and solid as I often use a little adhesive as well, so lifting any of my floors once I have repaired them would be a horrible task.

 

[Toby Newell]

But from a professional point of view, I have calouses on my hands, knuckles, fingers, get splinters and cut myself with knives and chisels and random things every job, my back and knees hurt constantly.

Not having constantly bruised knuckles from nailing is a welcome respite, remember, you have to countersink them as well. You whack 1,000 3 inch cut rosehead brads say 5 times to flush, then 3 times to set with a punch, that's 8,000 hits with my Estwing 21oz framer. Let's say I am 99.9% accurate, then that's still 8 smashes to my thumb and knuckles.

After the first big 2 or 3 hits when you have removed skin and your knuckles are bruised and swollen, it's not a great incentive to continue! I still have about 5kg of 2 and 3in brads in my storage.

From a technical point of view it is impossible to fix old floors with nails anyway, pine you might be ok, but 300+ yr old oak, it's harder and more brittle and you cannot fix cracked ends, so you would need to use smaller nails (I use 16G brad gun) and smaller screws if fixing close to edges or ends of boards or where there are lots of cracks.

 

[ThornhillMike]

This is mostly moot for me again as unless specifically instructed, my floors are bomb proof and solid as I often use a little adhesive as well, so lifting any of my floors once I have repaired them would be a horrible task.

I've seen you state this a few times Toby. Presumably your clients take the view that if underfloor services need attention, e.g. plumbing, then it has to be tackled from underneath ? Or are the floors typically not laid over services? I'm struggling to convince myself that my house won't (if only out of spite) require me to lift a floorboard in future for some unforeseen reason...!

 

[Toby Newell]

I've seen you state this a few times Toby. Presumably your clients take the view that if underfloor services need attention, e.g. plumbing, then it has to be tackled from underneath ? Or are the floors typically not laid over services? I'm struggling to convince myself that my house won't (if only out of spite) require me to lift a floorboard in future for some unforeseen reason...!

That Mike is a question only you can answer! Personally I think exposed screws look absolutely terrible, I suppose that would be ok if you covered the screwed area with a large rug. I have many repeat customers and never have had an issue where boards needed to be lifted after the fact. There have a been a few occasions where I have worked alongside builders, who screwed up and needed to lift boards, but I warn customers at the consultation stage that they will not be able to lift the boards easily after I secure them and I remind them often! Almost every floor I do is laid over services. Movement is the enemy of floors, so if you want to preserve your floor, it needs to be rock solid.

 

[Toby Newell]

Oh, and FYI. If you buy a new framing hammer DO NOT buy a waffle head, ie the deep cross hatching on the striker to stop it slipping. I used to have 3 of these but like an idiot gave two of them away to my customers. I remember giving a new one, with waffle head, to JP, my floor layer to use (delicate people please stop reading now) you can use your imagination.