Replacing septic tank with sewage treatment plant

[Kate26]

Hi.

Any advice on replacing a septic tank with a treatment plant?

We are close to either buying, or not buying, a property in mid-Devon where the shared septic tank, and the connecting drains that run across two properties, needs to be replaced with a sewage treatment plant that will then discharge cleanly into the watercourse. (No room for drainage filed etc.).

The vendor and their conveyancer have dragged their heels on even providing info, hiding behind it being a probate sale but they have finally had a survey done and have agreed it to share it with us, with, we hope, costings and design of a new system. And then reduce the price accordingly. If they won't - we will just pull out.

The neighbours (we knocked on their doors) are in agreement that the work should be done - though those using the tank don't want to pay their share for repair (yes, they are chancing their arm etc but they don't need to sell so have the vendor over a barrel - they should have got this sorted before the house went on sale - it going to be tricky to enforce without lengthy timescales.)

Questions:
- If you have had this done how much variation have you seen in cost of quotes. (I am exploring it another firm will quote on the basis of the survey).
- Also have you known there to be unexpected costs in the process (drainage pipes are going to have to be relocated)
- Are indeminities any help?
- Any other advice very welcome.

All the conveyancers / solicitors and estate agents in the process have been as useful as chocolate teapot. The property itself needs a lot of TLC so we are trying to protect outsells as much as possible from any more costs.

Many thanks

Kate

 

[Cubist]

Who has told you this work is necessary?

 

[Stevers]

The only party who shouldn't be 'over a barrel' in this situation is the potential purchaser!

If the work is necessary and the neighbours won't pay their share, then I'd take that as a sign that it's time to walk away.

 

[paulc]

There is a thread* running over on another forum where someone is currently on a shared septic tank. It needs replacing in order to comply with current regulations. The tail is dragging out, and due to disagreements between the three parties involved, it could end up with some expensive legal bills.
What I have learnt is that you need to make sure you know exactly who is responsible for the tank/plant, how maintenance/running costs are shared, and what happens if (when) the system needs replacing. If the neighbour is obliged to contribute to costs (including replacement), but refuses to pay, then things could get very ugly and very expensive.


*) A long read: https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6528251/septic-tank-shared-upgrade-what-would-you-do

 

[Kate26]

There is a thread* running over on another forum where someone is currently on a shared septic tank. It needs replacing in order to comply with current regulations. The tail is dragging out, and due to disagreements between the three parties involved, it could end up with some expensive legal bills.
What I have learnt is that you need to make sure you know exactly who is responsible for the tank/plant, how maintenance/running costs are shared, and what happens if (when) the system needs replacing. If the neighbour is obliged to contribute to costs (including replacement), but refuses to pay, then things could get very ugly and very expensive.


*) A long read: https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6528251/septic-tank-shared-upgrade-what-would-you-do

Thanks - will have a look. I think the vendors have realised that they are going to have to upfront all the replacement costs. Best case scenario is that we can then recoup some costs back from the other users, and then be quids in (which seems fair enough for dealing with the annoyance). Two of the properties are relations. Which adds to the fun.

 

[a twig]

A bit head in the sand but I do know of a couple of friends in rural parts of the country who just kept their heads down when buying a property with a “non-compliant” septic system and have yet to be contacted by the Environment Agency, according to the news they are somewhat understaffed these days and more concerned with rivers and water companies

 

[a twig]

Costs wise you can easily run into £10k - £20k depending on situation, access, existing pipework etc

 

[Kate26]

A bit head in the sand but I do know of a couple of friends in rural parts of the country who just kept their heads down when buying a property with a “non-compliant” septic system and have yet to be contacted by the Environment Agency, according to the news they are somewhat understaffed these days and more concerned with rivers and water companies

We are just thinking about reselling problems in the future. We want to future proof ourselves as much as possible (we are currently dealing with two sets of elderly parents in unsuitable houses so don't want to tie ourselves to a problems which isn't going to go away.). Also... my husband is a landscape ecologist ... so uncomfortable with a septic tank discharging into a watercourse...

 

[Kate26]

The only party who shouldn't be 'over a barrel' in this situation is the potential purchaser!

If the work is necessary and the neighbours won't pay their share, then I'd take that as a sign that it's time to walk away.

Yes, as I have said above - the vendors are coming to the realisation that not getting it sorted themselves is going to cost them. The neighbours have historically paid for the emptying upfront in previous years (it sits on their land close to their houses). I think the neighbours just want to see what they can get away with - and probably don't want to pay for the lengthy replacement pipe from "our" property to the tank.

 

[Kate26]

Who has told you this work is necessary?

The neighbours. The surveyor(s). The law (septic tank currently discourses into ground water.)

 

[a twig]

We are just thinking about reselling problems in the future. We want to future proof ourselves as much as possible (we are currently dealing with two sets of elderly parents in unsuitable houses so don't want to tie ourselves to a problems which isn't going to go away.). Also... my husband is a landscape ecologist ... so uncomfortable with a septic tank discharging into a watercourse...

Absolutely - not saying my friends’ solution is a good one, just sharing for context!

 

[Cubist]

The neighbours. The surveyor(s). The law (septic tank currently discourses into ground water.)

As you will know then, all septic tanks can, if they become overfull, or impacted by flooding say, can discharge some of their 'un-processed' contents. Has a definite leak or weakness in the systems design been identified by a specialist or is this worry based purely on suspicion.

 

[a twig]

As you will know then, all septic tanks can, if they become overfull, or impacted by flooding say, can discharge some of their 'un-processed' contents. Has a definite leak or weakness in the systems design been identified by a specialist or is this worry based purely on suspicion.

At the risk of speaking for Kate - it is no longer legal for a septic tank of any condition to discharge directly into a watercourse or into the groundwater nearby a water course (within 10m I think) - it must be upgraded to a sewage treatment system.

Rectification is mandated at change of ownership of the property.

Scraping my brain from when I looked at a property without mains drainage as few years I think (but don’t quote me) that the legislation put the legal onus on the seller to resolve before selling.

 

[Stevers]

and probably don't want to pay for the lengthy replacement pipe from "our" property to the tank.

If the pipe from 'your' property to the tank is disproporionately long, that doesn't seem unreasonable though...

 

[Cubist]

The core of the issue here I think is that the present sewage service is shared between several properties and one or more of the other property owners is saying they are not interested in, or cannot afford, to contribute to the cost of a new system. The seller of the property is clearly not liable for any more than a reasonable share of the new system and is doubtless is unwilling to bear the full cost themselves. Arbitration and negotiation is the only option but the chance of success is probably very limited.

 

[Kate26]

At the risk of speaking for Kate - it is no longer legal for a septic tank of any condition to discharge directly into a watercourse or into the groundwater nearby a water course (within 10m I think) - it must be upgraded to a sewage treatment system.

Rectification is mandated at change of ownership of the property.

Scraping my brain from when I looked at a property without mains drainage as few years I think (but don’t quote me) that the legislation put the legal onus on the seller to resolve before selling.

Your are right - the onus is on the vendor. The estate agent should have advised them when it went on the market last September. And then their conveyancer should have known this , instead of saying "Information not known. Executor sale" to every question - like I said, both are as useful as a chocolate teapot.

 

[Kate26]

If the pipe from 'your' property to the tank is disproporionately long, that doesn't seem unreasonable though...

Yes. It's between 30-60 metres (depending on who is guesses the distance) -hoping for more clarity once the survey is produced.

 

[Kate26]

The core of the issue here I think is that the present sewage service is shared between several properties and one or more of the other property owners is saying they are not interested in, or cannot afford, to contribute to the cost of a new system. The seller of the property is clearly not liable for any more than a reasonable share of the new system and is doubtless is unwilling to bear the full cost themselves. Arbitration and negotiation is the only option but the chance of success is probably very limited.

Exactly. Which is why if the heirs want the money from the property they need to stump up. It's certainly not our problem to inherit. But we are worried about loosing our buyer if it gets strung out any longer (the idiot has given up the lease on their rented flat - without an exchange date agreed - but it's buyers' market - our house is the 1 of 6 for sale on our nice street since March - only 2 have sold.). So that why we are trying to move things forward and get the full discount...

Hence my questions - checking for more trap doors. But no-one seems to have answers to those...

 

[Cubist]

Is there sufficient space, and access, of installation of a private service for the one property you are interested in? At least that would remove any dependency on the other neighbours and limit negotiations to the heirs alone.

 

[Kate26]

Is there sufficient space, and access, of installation of a private service for the one property you are interested in? At least that would remove any dependency on the other neighbours and limit negotiations to the heirs alone.

That could well be the most cost effective solution than replacing 43 metres of pipe (just measured it). And it would solve the problem of a bathroom in an annex with no planning permission. But it wouldn't be totally straightforward. We'll have to see what the survey company says. And whether we want the hassle. Or what discount we would want for the hassle.