Secondary glazing

[Feltwell]

Here at Feltwell Towers, we're lucky enough to have nearly all the original windows, which are mostly box sashes. Single glazed of course, and gradually being restored and draughtproofed by yours truly - which makes a huge difference, not just for draughts but also for usability - the windows don't rattle and glide open and shut on the draughtproofing brush seals.

Keeping the original windows is a must. I could replace the sliding sashes with new ones with double glazed units in, but I'm not keen on that for a number of reasons - weight of windows and difficulty of accommodating the larger sash weights, loss of original joinery and glass, chunkier mouldings to hide seals, future failure of DG seals, and DG units just never look quite right to me.

I do though like the idea of anything non-intrusive to make the house warmer, and cutting down on condensation on the glass - which of course the draughtproofing makes worse!

Most secondary glazing systems seem to consist of an aluminium frame with the sliding vertical sashes holding the secondary glazing - this kind of thing:-

https://www.duration.co.uk/Secondary-Glazing-Vertical-Sliders.asp

https://www.gsecg.com/products/vertical-sliders/

These look very effective and I've stayed in hotels with them fitted many times - they seem very good, jury is out on the aesthetics but I think I could live with the right system, fitted well. Alas, they only really seem to suit windows that are sat back from the inner wall surface in a reveal. On my windows, the inner face of the sash box is flush with the wall plaster - fancy architrave covering the gap - there is no reveal at all. The only way to fit one of these frames would be to face fix it to the architrave, sticking out into the room, which would look awful.

I've tried polycarbonate sheet ("Perspex") fixed with magnetic strips - just didn't work for us, they rattled badly in high winds and were a pain to store when taken down, which you had to do to open the windows. I persisted with different options but finally admitted defeat.

Tonight I've spotted this frameless glass shutter system which looks intriguing. Certainly very subtle in appearance, especially with the hinges lined up with the meeting rail. Looks like they mount to the staff bead, so lack of window reveal is not a problem. They won't have a good seal to the window or to each other at joints - the sliding sash type above must be much better - but I reckon they'll still have a benefit, those who've got wooden shutters say how much they help keep the heat in and their seal is no better. Has anyone seen them in use or spotted any alternative types of system?

http://glassshutter.co.uk/index.html

 

[Feltwell]

Just spotted this as well - seems they have had them thoroughly tested. A sealing strip round the edge of the glass made surprisingly little difference:-

http://glassshutter.co.uk/Glass shutter company final report.pdf

 

[Me!]

Those do indeed look pleasantly unobtrusive when closed. I think though that I'd want to keep them closed at all times except for window cleaning as they clearly protrude well into the room and over the curtains when shown open in their video.
I am surprised though how little difference the addition of sealing stips makes to the tests. Personally I'd like to know how powerful their fans are, as my gut feeling is that any significant movement of air would make the benefit of a better sealing system more noticeable.

 

[Feltwell]

Good point on the air movement. I'm draughtproofing the original windows, which will substantially cut that down, but it does still get pretty windy outside here at times and there will always be some draught.

Open shutters Intruding into the room is a downside - I think these would stay shut 99% of the time, only opening when the window needs to be open in hot weather. Downstairs, getting in the way of the curtains isn't really an issue, as if the curtains are shut the windows are generally shut as well. Upstairs though, on hot nights, I'd have to pull the curtains over the open glass shutters - or fit roller blinds possibly.

 

[chippy1]

Good point on the air movement. I'm draughtproofing the original windows, which will substantially cut that down, but it does still get pretty windy outside here at times and there will always be some draught.

Open shutters Intruding into the room is a downside - I think these would stay shut 99% of the time, only opening when the window needs to be open in hot weather. Downstairs, getting in the way of the curtains isn't really an issue, as if the curtains are shut the windows are generally shut as well. Upstairs though, on hot nights, I'd have to pull the curtains over the open glass shutters - or fit roller blinds possibly.

Really interested in this tread....thank you! Please keep us updated on what method to go with...I also have original sash windows but have internal shutters fitted to all the windows...this does stop some of the draughts but doesnt help on very cold nights over the winter...The only issue I have in that the internal shutters are fitted to the internal window frame so have limited space to attach secondary glazing but some of these options might work, especially the thin (glass) hinged glazing you mention above....

thanks

 

[Owain]

The clingfilm type secondary "glazing" is surprisingly effective against draughts and condensation. Difficult to remove of course, but it you just leave it up for the worst 3 months of the year and put up with single glazing for the rest?

 

[Feltwell]

The clingfilm treatment is, as you say, surprisingly effective - but it also looks hideous and is a faff. Not sure I'd want to live that long not being able to see out of the windows clearly. It is really a permanent solution I'm after.

No response to an email to that firm which is not promising - looks like they are still active though, they are filing accounts - will give them a call next week. What I really want is to be able to buy the fittings and get the glass & do the installation myself, for several reasons - they are in Northern Ireland and for some windows I'll have to get the glass specially cut to shape to a template for starters. Luckily there is a glass processors about half an hour from me who can do cut to template but also can then toughen the glass for safety.

 

[Me!]

No response to an email to that firm which is not promising - looks like they are still active though, they are filing accounts - will give them a call next week. What I really want is to be able to buy the fittings and get the glass & do the installation myself

If you are getting the glass locally, then do you actually need anything from this company?
There seems to be a large selection of generic glass-mounted hinges available from other suppliers that would appear to be suitable for the job.

 

[Feltwell]

It's a good point Me!. So long as this firm aren't too extortionately expensive I'd prefer to buy from them - the items in use should be tried & tested, and I'd feel a little guilty at shamelessly hijacking their idea - I do like to support small businesses, especially one developing a heritage-sensitive product.

But, if I can't get them from them, then it's definitely an option to look at, thank you!

 

[Gothichome]

Feltwell, over here these are becoming popular for old homes.

https://www.oldhouseonline.com/repairs-and-how-to/interior-storm-windows

Several of the old home folks I chat with swear by them. One fellow even made his own using acrylic glass.

 

[chippy1]

Feltwell, over here these are becoming popular for old homes.

https://www.oldhouseonline.com/repairs-and-how-to/interior-storm-windows

Several of the old home folks I chat with swear by them. One fellow even made his own using acrylic glass.

That looks a great idea. How do you clean the internal windows? Do they open or I'm guessing as they can be magnetic, you just take them off to clean?

I noticed its a US company? Anyone know if you can get these in UK?


thanks

 

[Gothichome]

Chippy, most of the folks just take them out in the spring and pop them back in in the fall. I’m sure some one in the UK sells some thing similar.
Old house journal is a monthly bible for old house owners out of the US. Lots of how too’s and historical references for those who are interested on old home restoration. Over the years it has gone a bit ‘uptown’ and glossy but it still has lots to offer for the home restorer.

 

[chippy1]

Chippy, most of the folks just take them out in the spring and pop them back in in the fall. I’m sure some one in the UK sells some thing similar.
Old house journal is a monthly bible for old house owners out of the US. Lots of how too’s and historical references for those who are interested on old home restoration. Over the years it has gone a bit ‘uptown’ and glossy but it still has lots to offer for the home restorer.

Thanks Gothichome...appreciate the reply!Looks like I need to use google search to find somewhere in this country. I like the idea of clipping them off over the summer and pop them back on in the fall when they are most needed. As I have internal shutters that are attached to the internal window frames, something slimline, that pops on and off is an excellent idea.

thanks again

 

[MatthewC]

Well, I've posted before about the acrylic which I applied to my windows several years ago, which was held on by screws and plastic clips with a plastic seal around the edge.

Now on this house I have refurbished all the sash windows which were not new. I also have used a few unfixed wedges where there were issues with making a good join between the pair of windows with the catch. It sometimes seemed that it all lined up perfectly but the window was too stiff in movement whch I resolved by moving the staff bead. That has reduced 90%+ of draughts. Consequently, last summer I removed all the acrylic from the windows and found that I don't really notice any ill effects!

Matthew

 

[Feltwell]

I've given up with anything acrylic based now - especially where you have to lift panels off and store them for the summer, the windows here are so large and the panels being flexible just means they're a pig to store without damaging them.

No, I really want a system that stays up all year round, that can be opened to open the windows in summer or for cleaning.

I just rang the Glass Shutter Company - clearly a very small enterprise, I spoke to the owner's wife, her husband is ill and has been for a while and she has no idea if they'll be up & trading again - She said they really need to get the website taken down.

So, it's source my own fittings if I want to try it - which I do. It looks like there is a good selection of fittings out there, only thing is nearly all of them are chrome, so I'll have to paint them - rub down as best as I can & etch prime first I guess, chrome is a rotten surface to get paint to stick to.

I shall report back in due course, I could be gone for some time....! :?

 

[LadyArowana]

So, it's source my own fittings if I want to try it - which I do. It looks like there is a good selection of fittings out there, only thing is nearly all of them are chrome, so I'll have to paint them - rub down as best as I can & etch prime first I guess, chrome is a rotten surface to get paint to stick to.

I shall report back in due course, I could be gone for some time....! :?

If you found a small manufacturer of the fittings maybe they could sell you some before they were chrome plated? Might be worth asking? Occasionally places can be surprisingly helpful.

 

[Feltwell]

I think these are all mass-market LadyA - I see the same ones advertised by different sellers, a lot of whom are clearly in China. I'll manage it!

 

[Abi Cott]

Check on Alibaba, ordering direct from China can be cost effective and surprisingly easy.

 

[Feltwell]

Yes, AliExpress is quite good as well - I've used that a few times with no problems.

 

[ElectronicFur]

Do these glass shutters attach to the staff bead then?

If they do attach to the beads, then I'd need 8 separate ones per bay, due to each of my transform & mullion window sections.

I also ask because I'm wondering how they would work with my internal wooden shutters. I have the type that close quite flush to the window, and fold back into a recess at the sides so they're hidden as a panel during the day.

I had originally been thinking of doing something with acrylic panels. You think acrylic is not the way to go then?