Steel arched window renovation

[overlander matt]

I'm working on an LBC application which has resulted in the need for provision of further details about restoration of a feature window. It's a steel arch shape window with some coloured glass - it looks like the sort of window you see in a chapel and is quite unlike anything else at the house. The story goes that the window was damaged by a blast in WW2 and with coloured glass not being readily available, clear glass was fitted.



I would be keen to remove the window and strip it back to bare metal for repainting and reglazing. The first problem is I don't know how it should have looked - how many colours would have been used and what pattern? The second is how to find a suitable glass to match the existing.



Does anyone know anything about this style of window and how I might go about restoring it? I'm happy to hand this over to a specialist but have not had much success in finding someone who is interested.

Thanks as always.

Matt

 

[Feltwell]

Lovely window Matt.

I fitted 2 plainer metal windows to my garage - big 8’x4’ reclaimed Victorian ones, arch topped. I had them sandblasted and powder coated before installation, that was 10 years ago and they still look good. Glazing was done with a modern mastic in my case. If you’re happy to completely remove the frames and glazing then a good powder coated finish should last well, if all stripped back to clean bare metal first.

Matching coloured glass - go to anywhere that does leaded light restoration, they should be able to help you. We had to match some when our leaded light window was restored.

 

[88v8]

Tatra glass may be a source.
https://www.tatra-glass.co.uk/stained-glass/

Getting the existing glass out without further breakage could be interesting.
These people are steel window specialists.
https://www.cotswold-casements.co.uk/

Ivor

 

[overlander matt]

Thanks Ivor and Feltwell.

I'm really keen to find out what this window should look like... I presume that the 'original' glass is the patterned yellow and pink panels. I will put a couple of enquiries out there to see whether there is any interest in restoring this window. I still need to win over the CO for this work too.

Matt

 

[88v8]

The yellow and pinkish look like Small Arctic. Perhaps 1950s?
I'd have said that flat blue would have been original to the margins, perhaps with a red starburst in the corners.

A good deal of old glass was lost to blast damage in the war, but it cracks in steel windows due to frame corrosion.

Ivor

 

[overlander matt]

Thanks Ivor. I would like to see some other windows like this to get a better idea how it might have looked. I have a stained glass company coming over next week to take a look so it will be interesting to see what they think...

The story of the bomb damage is plausible but from what I have learned the significant bomb that fell on the village and destroyed many of the glass houses fell on the other side of the house so I have a few doubts about the tale, as interesting as it is! Bit more exciting than corrosion of the frame anyway!!

I'll post an update when I have something to report.

Thanks again.

Matt

 

[88v8]

Not that it's directly relevant, founds this excellent site where there are some lovely examples of glass especially the first pic, boy would I love that bathroom
https://www.oldhouseonline.com/repairs-and-how-to/restoration-repair-historic-stained-leaded-glass
and much good advice.
I was particularly struck by the section on Photographing stained glass [about a third the way down] a paragraph which has become almost 'period' in itself although many of the tips are still very apt and will help you get some better pics of your glazing.

I was trying to find some examples of margin glazing, I'll keep looking.

OK, here's one with a red flat margin and a starburst
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Pictures+of+Victorian+margin+glazing&ia=images&iax=images&iai=http%3A%2F%2Fabergavennyreclamation.co.uk%2Fwordpress%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2018%2F10%2FGDX013-2018-16-10-Victorian-stained-glass-glazed-margin-door-C-450.jpg
The Arctic in your window is definitely a later substitution.

Ivor

 

[overlander matt]

Nearly five months on and I have access for removal of the window for restoration. The plan is to blast and powder coat it then glaze with red and blue glass around the margins. The window is currently held in place with a fillet of mortar from the edge of the reveal that fortunately appears to come off without tearing off the face of the brick. It does not appear that there are any other fittings holding the window in place - if there are they are concealed.

I'm not sure how best to fix the window in position the window when we reinstall it. The metal frame is approximately 30mm wide so could accommodate a purpose made metal frame that will screw to the brickwork. Is there an obvious solution to this one? I have a proper stone sill to fit below it rather than the cement mortar panel that someone decided was the best option some years ago... Luckily this has chipped off without damaging the brickwork too much.

Thanks as always for any shared wisdom.

Matt

 

[overlander matt]

The window returned from stripping yesterday. Although not perfect, it has come up ok and with a little extra work should be good for a few more years.



The plan is to repair the crack and larger holes with weld then powder coat the frame. Any of the smaller holes, like those shown below (which were on the inside) will be filled and painted. As the rusting appears worse on the inside, I will need to look at reducing condensation.



There is still a need to attach it to the brickwork with a better option than a fillet of mortar but I've yet to decide what it is... Maybe an arch shaped rim that will secure to the brickwork will work?

Thanks for any thoughts.

Matt

 

[Feltwell]

Are you sure it can be successfully welded? Cast iron is pig to weld. This old post might be of interest, although Photobucket have blurred the pictures in an attempt to extort money from their users, swines! The repair was in 2012, is still holding up fine now.

https://www.periodproperty.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=13366&p=181839&hilit=boot#p181839

 

[Craig89]

Welding cast iron is not the way to go, especially on that window frame as it is such a delicate part. Anybody that says "Yeah I can weld that up, no problem" is either a specialist cast iron welder or more likely they dont really understand the difficulties involved. However if they turn round and say "That would be better off being brazed up" then I would say they probably have more experience with cast iron repair.

The best way to repair that would be to drill a small hole at the end of the crack, this stops it spreading further, "V" out the crack a little and then braze it up with a brass/bronze filler rod. Care must be taken to preheat as much of the window as possible and then allowed to cool very slowly after. If it were mine that's the way I would go anyway, still a relatively specialist job but much greater chance of success. As regards to any of the holes I would probably just fill those with an epoxy, JB Weld or similar.

Does the window sit in the reveal or behind it? If behind it then it's more straight forward as you only have to stop it falling in. In the reveal could be more tricky. Im guessing the outer rim of the window is not solid due to the holes, is the very edge just like a 90 degree return?

Hope this helps

Craig

 

[MatthewC]

Good job!

A church I know in London has five or six windows on the same style but much larger. The panes were all 12" x 8" plain as I recall, apart from the ones in the semicircle at the top. They all need the same treatment but I never bothered to get a price when I was there.

As regards stop drilling the crack, go 5 or 10mm past the visible end as the crack will already be longer than what you can see. I have seen components on aircraft (e.g. canopies and fairings) where people chased the end of the crack but it was always longer than they thought, so there was a string of drilled holes...

Matthew

 

[Gothichome]

I would braze that crack, as mentioned welding cast is a bit of an art, finding a welder with enough experience might be hard. Also, if the welder was not careful with his settings they could easily blast holes in the cast. And yes, pre heat and post heat is a must. As far as the rust through that can be filled with lead.

 

[overlander matt]

Thanks for the suggestions. I will be calling by the engineering shop tomorrow to discuss how we go ahead with the repair - they have also been renovating some strange pulleys from a Venetian sash mentioned elsewhere.

In terms of the painting, I had originally planned to have the window powder coated. Is this the best option given the other repair work that will be needed?

Thanks again,

Matt

 

[malcolm]

I half wrote a post the other day and didn't post it. It's not an answer but might contribute to the thinking. It's a tricky one this.

My gut feeling would be to try to stabilise the corner so the crack doesn't separate. If there is room and access on the inside of the window recess above the crack then welding/brazing a bridging piece in place would probably be the best option. If no access then grind a groove from the outside where the channel goes from the outside to the inside, then cut a bit of mild steel to bridge the crack with plenty of space on all sides and braze it carefully into place and fill with braze back to the surface.

Won't fix the crack but should take care of the stress so the crack won't open up any more and you can just fill it. Feltwell posted a link in the cast iron thread you might read. I actually wrote the page in the link many years ago and while it's not perfect it should give some idea of good and bad ways to deal with cast iron. Other people have probably written more useful stuff since then too.

Everything else, remaining cracks or holes, are better filled. For any non-structural holes car body filler is brilliant, but it is well worth checking with powder coaters what they can coat and which fillers won't melt.

For my Crittall window frames I had them blasted then painted them in a 95% zinc primer (Bilt Hamber supplied it - needs a rough shotblasted surface to stick) and then painted with Linseed paint. I prefer to avoid plastic coatings as soon as you get any flaw you'll get water trapped under the coating which causes corrosion in metals. I'm guessing your previous coating was modern horrid plastic gloss and the frame had been fine for a hundred years before that happened. My window frames were steel. Cast iron corrodes much less readily so you have more options for coatings than me.

 

[Feltwell]

I prefer to avoid plastic coatings as soon as you get any flaw you'll get water trapped under the coating which causes corrosion in metals.

I know what you mean. I did have some large wrought iron (I think) windows blasted and powder coated 10 years ago though, and so far they are just fine. Powder coat is very durable if you're careful not to break it.