Wall Beam Restoration

[HowesyR]

Hello,

I have recently purchased an 1870s cottage which has exposed beams within the walls. Prior to me purchasing it someone has painted/varnished the beams a very dark brown, almost black colour.

I would like to take the colour back to the original wood to lighten the whole house up. I have a couple of questions
1) what is the best way to remove varnish/paint from beams? I was thinking a small orbital sander but was unsure if this would be too harsh. They are all in good condition and solid.
2) what kind of treatment do beams need once I've stripped them back? I've seen some suggestions that they're best off being able to 'breathe' and so I shouldn't varnish or seal. I'm unsure on the truth of this.

Thanks!

 

[Toby Newell]

1. Whatever you do will be difficult, messy and time consuming.
2. Your beams need no finish at all, it's an aesthetic thing, shellac and waxing will make them slightly easier to clean and retain less dust. Breathability isn't really an issue unless you have damp problems, most beams of this age are painted or coated in some form of gunk.

 

[Toby Newell]

I have articles on my website in great detail on sanding and stripping. In general it's scraping and sanding. You can chemically strip pristine conditon beams with little finish. If you want someone else to do it, they will probably blast it, which is relatively quick and cheap. Blasting is fine for very sound beams but will leave a furry surface and need a clean up sand. If you have large areas of delicate and friable areas any blasting should be considered with extreme caution.

 

[Toby Newell]

Please send photos so we can have a look!

 

[malcolm]

We'll need photos definitely to see what you are dealing with. Use the 'attach files' button below where you type your post. Sanding would normally be a very bad idea.

 

[Toby Newell]

We'll need photos definitely to see what you are dealing with. Use the 'attach files' button below where you type your post. Sanding would normally be a very bad idea.

Why do you say that Malcolm?

 

[malcolm]

Why do you say that Malcolm?

Because I think photos would be useful. People with ancient old beams with a nice surface might be better positioned than me to comment on whether they would use a machine sander on them or maybe try something more sensitive first. I've only got 17C beams in one bedroom. They are well preserved and I've been really careful with them.

Why your question?

 

[Toby Newell]

Because I think photos would be useful. People with ancient old beams with a nice surface might be better positioned than me to comment on whether they would use a machine sander on them or maybe try something more sensitive first. I've only got 17C beams in one bedroom. They are well preserved and I've been really careful with them.

Why your question?

Well, you said sanding would normally be a very bad idea, indicating that it's generally a very bad idea, but in some instances it would be ok. This indicates you have directly had or heard of both good and bad experiences.

I just wondered what negative experiences you have had? I have sanded several hundred metres of ancient beams and never had a bad experience (if you discount physical discomfort to the user) In general sanding is the least destructive stripping method. Poultice stripping and / or scraping can be handy for removing the bulk of any thick build up. One would normally still want to remove the residue that is left via sanding, either by hand or machine, and picking out with various pointed tools.

I have seen many properties with beams heavily damaged by blasting but not by sanding. That may not be a fair observation considering very few people bother to sand beams.

I should also have pointed out that beams that are friable and delicate enough to be damaged by blasting would also be damaged by sanding to some extent as both are destructive. My assertion is that blasting leaves a furry, rough, unfinished surface that requires sanding anyway afterwards to obtain a smooth finish, therefore it makes no sense to blast first if you are going to sand afterwards anyway.

Old beams are usually oak and are incredibly hard (undamaged areas) with the world's best sanders and abrasives you would struggle to remove 1mm of timber. It's not the abrasive that does the damage, rather it is the vibration from the machine that can break off delicate areas. If one were to use a less efficient sanding regime you would increase the amount of time needed to remove any finish and thus increase the volume of vibration and damage. That is why you scrape / chemically strip, then use a very powerful abrasive.

You can sand with safety specs on, for blasting you need an air fed hood, visibility is poorer.

People who want to lighten interiors to cottages with low ceilings will often pay for some sort of blasting or paint the beams off white and rub in a brown wax. Very few people opt for sanding and hand picking (with or without poultice stripping).

The OP says the beams are in good condition and solid, sanding these with an orbital sander is unlikely to cause any major damage IMHO and I have done this with great results dozens of times, including the hearth beam of Robert Tavendale, the man who started Period Property, in his country cottage. I was able to spot some rare warding marks and could carefully sand around these.

 

[malcolm]

I don't have 35 years experience in this sort of thing so you are right I will have to defer to other members.

For everyone else: If you have ancient oak beams in good condition is it a good idea to sand paint off them or might you start out with a more careful approach?

 

[Toby Newell]

Whether it is sympathetic to remove centuries of lime, paint, tar and stain is another matter. Most beams started off bare, very often during the early years of their life (pre 1800s) most would probably have been lime washed at some point and a few were lime plastered (you can tell from the hack marks) during the 1800's and especially from the 1860's many would have been coated with black coal tar, as per the fashion of the time. After that many were stripped, first around the 1900's when Morris et al lead the fashion for natural wood finishes. Later during the 1900's they were re stained and / or painted with various levels of gunk as per personal taste black, brown or white. The fashion for stripped beams (and timber in general) only really took off in the late 1980's. So from a historic perspective you can take your pick which era you would like to emulate.

 

[Toby Newell]

I don't have 35 years experience in this sort of thing so you are right I will have to defer to other members.

For everyone else: If you have ancient oak beams in good condition is it a good idea to sand paint off them or might you start out with a more careful approach?

That seems slightly obtuse. The OP was asking for opinions. Your opinion is just as valid. I was asking on what do you base your assertion? Presumably you have seen beams damaged badly by sanding? What would be more careful than sanding? Considering you have to sand, scrape and brush the finish from any residue from chemical stripping? Remember, poultice stripper is caustic soda and this eats wood, especially friable wood and needs to be washed off with large amounts of water. The OP has solid beams, sanding and scraping is fine. The least destructive method would indeed be to leave them alone! Or paint them white when coating the plaster.

 

[malcolm]

You will win any argument on here because you will post dozens of times until everyone gives up. I can't be bothered. I'm out.

 

[Toby Newell]

You will win any argument on here because you will post dozens of times until everyone gives up. I can't be bothered. I'm out.

I already DM'd you.

I was simply asking why you thought sanding was very bad, that's all. You never answered. There are no winners! I have learnt most of what I do in restoration by trial and error, I am constantly trialling, erroring and hopefully learning. Understanding other people's experiences is very helpful for me. If you do not want to share your bad experiences with sanding, fine, but please do not tryband gas light me for trying to give advice.

 

[Toby Newell]

Malcolm, this is not the first time you have bullied and gaslighted me simply because I asked you to substantiate your refutation of my advice.

The fact is you have never sanded any beams, nor do you know of anyone who has sanded any beams, you have simply assumed it is a 'very bad idea'. You are entitled to your opinion and you are entitled to disagree with me.

There is however no need to immaturely turn this into some sort of game.

I do not tolerate this sort of behaviour.

I have been posting here since the first month this forum was created in May 2006. I wrote some of the first expert articles on here when Rob Tavendale started the website when it was more than just a forum. I have spent hundreds of hours giving free advice, on here and via email and telephone to people around the UK and overseas, which I continue to do every week and I am one of the most dilligent contributors.

I respect the fact that you and Twig have very kindly taken on the responsibility of keeping at least the forum alive and believe it is one of the most helpful and detailed repositories of information on old buildings.

I have no compunction to continue posting here and bear the brunt of your immature and over sensitive behaviour, so, no, you are not out, you continue to help run this great site.

I am finally out. I will not post any more advice to this forum. Thank you to all who have contributed to very interesting and educational discussions over the last 18 years.