Walls too thick for wireless internet!

[Thisoldhouse]

Help! We can't get wireless network in most of the house as the walls are so thick! Is there any other option other than running thick grey cable all over the walls and floors! :shock: It looks awful so not going to happen!

Any suggestions?

Thanks!

 

[Baron de Gynes]

You could try powerline networking which sends an ethernet signal across the wiring ring main. It won't work (or would require three different adaptors) if you are on three-phase electric, as we are here.

 

[Thisoldhouse]

Thank you baron! I have suggested that to himself and he is looking into it! Damn these walls! :lol:

 

[Flyfisher]

It's also possible to combine powerline and wi-fi technologies. Thus, for example, use powerline units to distribute your ethernet around the house and plug a wi-fi access point** into the powerline units in the rooms where you want wi-fi access.

Actually, I'd be surprised if a single wall is thick enough to block wi-fi but I can fully understand that a wi-fi router at one end of a house with thick walls might not provide wi-fi at the other end. But with a few wi-fi access points dotted around the house you should be able to get wi-fi throughout.

Another possibility is to run ethernet cabling into the attic and place a few wi-fi access points above the required rooms. Floors and ceilings will probably provide less wi-fi shielding than thick walls. It's a matter of experimenting really.


** A wi-fi access point is basically just the wi-fi bit of a wireless router but without the router/broadband bit. It allows wi-fi access to a wired network - in this example the powerline units are providing the wired network.

 

[MdB]

During our major works, we had to move out of the house and into the caravan in the garden. We didn't want to move the telephone / ADSL line so that stayed in the house but it was too far for the wireless connection to work. The solution was to send the signal down the power line using homeplug AV from Solwise (http://www.solwise.co.uk/net-powerline-av-index.htm). This worked well with one end plugged into the ADSL modem in the loft and the other end in the caravan. Something like 40m of cable I guess. We then plugged a wireless access point into the caravan to connect to our laptops. A bit complicated yes but it all worked well.

 

[biffvernon]

I bought this: http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=NW-032-TP

 

[skier-hughes]

Blimey they are cheap Biff, are they working well? I think I'll get me another pair.
FF, our walls block the wi fi signal, so I have to place the router in a certain position for both Jo and I to get a signal, which is in the middle of a doorway, it goes up through the very thin ceiling a treat

 

[tobydog]

Our inglenook blocked the signal on the ground floor from one end of the house to the other. We have the desktop in the old kitchen that has no phone lines so I got one of those dongle things and have the router in our new bedroom wardrobes which are immediately above (full signal now). There was an old power and phone point in their from when the previous owners had the room configured differently. The router is now above the bulk of the inglenook and feeds a signal to any laptops, etc. Took a while to work out. We also have an old 3 phase system from the days of the E7 so the other options mentioned here might still have been an issue. Never a dull moment :roll:

 

[Penners]

We have the desktop in the old kitchen that has no phone lines so I got one of those dongle things and have the router in our new bedroom wardrobes which are immediately above (full signal now).

But given that Thisoldhouse's problem is a poor wireless network signal, a wireless adaptor dongle is not the solution.

I'm another vote in favour of a powerline solution. I sometimes use this system in a house that we visit regularly, and it works very well - even when the computer is located in an outbuilding. The important thing is that the two powerline units must both be plugged into sockets on the same electrical system. It doesn't matter if they're on different circuits (eg: upstairs and downstairs rings) so long as those circuits are connected through the same consumer unit.

 

[Flyfisher]

We also have an old 3 phase system from the days of the E7 so the other options mentioned here might still have been an issue. Never a dull moment :roll:

Can domestic premises have 3-phase power distributed throughout these days? The only time I've come across 3-phase power has been within large computer rooms with cabinets connected to different phases and such installations required lots of warning notices because of the potential for much higher voltages under fault conditions (415V rather than 240V). I can imagine 3-phase being connected to a specific appliance (our outbuildings used to have 3-phase power for workshop machine tools) but I'd be surprised if the normal power outlets were split across phases.

But if 3-phase power really can be distributed around a house it should still be fairly easy to use powerline networking. All that would be necessary is to plug a powerline unit into each phase circuit, preferably in close proximity, and then link them together with a couple of ethernet patch cables. This should then provide a data path across all three phases.

 

[Penners]

I think by now you know the severe limitations of my understanding of electrical systems, FW, but wouldn't that suggestion involve data from the router following a path right back to the electrical switching station, then back up another phase to the house? Would a powerline system have sufficient range to achieve that?

Or have I (as usual) misunderstood?

 

[Flyfisher]

Further to my previous post about combining powerline units with wi-fi access points it occurred to me that a combined unit would be a useful device. A quick search revealed a few devices such as this one: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Edimax-HP-2002APN-200Mbps-Wireless-PowerLine/dp/B003E521QY/ref=pd_cp_ce_4

A single powerline unit plugged into the house wiring next to the broadband router would creat a network throughout the house wiring and one of these powerline/wifi units in the required room would provide wi-fi .

At less than £45 each, it wouldn't be too costly to have a few these devices dotted around the house as required for complete wi-fi coverage.

Just a suggestion. I haven't tried these combined devices myself, though I have successfully used separate powerline and wifi access points so the concept is certainly sound and a combined device would be a neat solution. I'm tempted to try one myself!

 

[geoff]

I had a similar problem - two foot thick stone walls and other areas with foil covered insulation, both of which seem to deplete wi-fi signals significantly. A combination of the wireless router with the broadband connection in the main living area and using the mains based network adapters for the problem areas works well. I used second hand 100 Mbit units and set up was very easy - everything is pretty much plug and go these days using standard cables. You can plug them into additional wireless access points (wireless routers without the broadband connection) as well if you want to provide full wi-fi access in all the problem areas or gardens etc.

 

[tobydog]

The only reason I know it's 3 phase was because our extension electricians were surprised to see it in our modest cottage even though we had E7. They said it was powerful enough to manage a small industrial workshop.

 

[Flyfisher]

I think by now you know the severe limitations of my understanding of electrical systems, FW, but wouldn't that suggestion involve data from the router following a path right back to the electrical switching station, then back up another phase to the house? Would a powerline system have sufficient range to achieve that?

Or have I (as usual) misunderstood?

I doubt that powerline units have sufficient range to send data back to the substation. I've read figures of 300m maximum range but I presume this will depend on the specific device and the quality of wiring. But I've also read that the data signals cannot pass through power transformers, so that would prevent the signals passing onto another phase, even if the substation was in range.

Another interesting point is the potential for interference (malicious or otherwise) with neighbouring homes using the same devices. I used to think that powerline signals were filtered out by the supply meter but I've not been able to find any confirmation of this and have read some examples where people were having such problems. Thus, it seems wise to treat a powerline network in the same way as a wifi network as far as security is concerned and ensure the appropriate encryption facilities are used.

 

[another_richard]

You could try a cantenna:

http://www.turnpoint.net/wireless/cantennahowto.html

And also indulge in a spot of wardriving.

 

[Penners]

The problem with a cantenna is interference. You keep getting a deep French voice cutting into your network, saying things like, "When the seagulls follow the trawler, it is because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea."

 

[tobydog]

Penners - my earlier mention of the dongle for the desktop was a bit of an unintended distraction. The point I wanted to make was that by moving the router much higher up it enabled the signal to get to our laptops and phones anywhere in the house and avoid the inglenook and other hindrances. We considered putting it in the loft. I suppose if thisoldhouse has thick walls all the way to the roof then that might still fail. It looks as though much more sophisticated solutions have been found now anyway.

 

[Penners]

Tobydog - one way to improve reception from a router directly above you is to rotate the antenna(e) so that they lie horizontal. This maximises the up/down signal (or so I've been told).

 

[MdB]

Tobydog - one way to improve reception from a router directly above you is to rotate the antenna(e) so that they lie horizontal. This maximises the up/down signal (or so I've been told).

Vertically is generally best as the transmission on axis is the worst. i.e. directly above or below the router. If you put them horizontally, then transmission will be poor in the directions they point and 180 degrees from that.

However.... WiFi suffers greatly from reflections causes the signals to combine and cancel out in unpredictable ways. This means that in practise the best direction to point them could be anywhere and experimentation is the best way to find the best orientation.