Water entering crawl space (please help!)

[Ray1991]

Hello all,
Iv recently got the keys to my first property, an old 1890s downstairs flat, I began renovating it and have discovered Iv some pretty big issues in the crawl space.
I new it had some issues but never seen anything like this before so I’m after some advice! Has anyone ever seen anything like this? Iv had 2 drain engineers out and checked near by gully’s and drains and found nothing, next doors have been checked and dyed and still nothing. After heavy rain I get buckets of water coming in, on occasion it’s even been soapy water! (Photos) the hole goes back over 500mm.

 

[Gothichome]

Ray, I think your short term solution will be a sump pump permanently wired In or at the least plugged in. I think more information will be needed to make suggestions about cause and possible long term solution.
Ron

 

[Ray1991]

Hi Ron, I did think of a sump pump but would ideally like to find the source if possible, im trying to get someone with a thermal imaging camera to see if they can track it? Not sure if that would work.. It’s really got me stuck!

 

[Feltwell]

Has every drain been checked, including all rainwater gullies? Have you put drain dye down each one?

Toolstation do a dye that is detectable by UV light as well as flourescent in colour - could be worth a try, get a cheap UV torch and check when it's dark after putting dye down drains earlier.

It could just be groundwater levels but the fact you're getting it just after rain makes me thing it's a rainwater gully somewhere - groundwater levels take a while to rise and fall, and if you pumped it out it would just fill straight back up again.

 

[BlindPete]

Hello all,
Iv recently got the keys to my first property, an old 1890s downstairs flat, I began renovating it and have discovered Iv some pretty big issues in the crawl space.
I new it had some issues but never seen anything like this before so I’m after some advice! Has anyone ever seen anything like this? Iv had 2 drain engineers out and checked near by gully’s and drains and found nothing, next doors have been checked and dyed and still nothing. After heavy rain I get buckets of water coming in, on occasion it’s even been soapy water! (Photos) the hole goes back over 500mm.

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Can you ask your water utility company to come and test the water to see what it contains. There could be a pipe connected to nothing or has become disconnected and leaking out. Does it smell of laundry for example.

 

[Ray1991]

The upstairs flat has a gully on the back of my kitchen which is the nearest gully to the leek, around 3.5m away, a fair way to travel. And next doors is pretty far away, and both have been dyed and had nothing in. Iv had a liner put in the main drain (soil from both flats) as it showed a couple displaced joins on the first inspection, I had a feeling it wasn’t from there but still got it fixed. After rain today/ last night Iv had some in. What baffles me is the soapy water?

Quite hard to explain this one il have to get some more photos up so you can get a better idea.

My kitchen is to the left of the crawl space in the photos and has a concrete floor.

 

[Ray1991]

Can you ask your water utility company to come and test the water to see what it contains. There could be a pipe connected to nothing or has become disconnected and leaking out. Does it smell of laundry for example.

Yes one time I hoovered the water up and you could smell detergent in it pretty strongly! Other times clear, and other times grey. I’ve never heard of this but I’m going to look into it, how do I go about this? thanks!

 

[Feltwell]

Yes one time I hoovered the water up and you could smell detergent in it pretty strongly! Other times clear, and other times grey. I’ve never heard of this but I’m going to look into it, how do I go about this? thanks!

Have you or your neighbour got a washing machine that is discharging, unknowingly, into a disused, unconnected drain? Stranger things have happened!

If you can smell detergent then I'd pull the washing machines out in your place and your neighbours, if they're OK with that, and put some dye down the drain they are connected to. Dishwashers as well, come to think of it.

Another way is buy some cheap perfume - an old trick for finding pinhole leaks in central heating systems - pour that down the drains, if your place smells like a tart's boudoir you know you've found the source!

 

[Ray1991]

My place is completely gutted, floors are up and first fix electrics and plumbing have been done, nothing is connected.
Upstairs washing machine and sink goes into the rain water gully which then connects into the main sewer then goes into the back lane, this has been checked with the camera twice and nothings showed, and dyed also. I’m trying to get under the neighbours floor to see if I can spot anything on his side but it means pulling laminate up which is a bit of a pain..
the water board came first and they basically shrugged their shoulders and said they can’t find it! After that 2 drain engineers have been and neither of them had no luck either. Next doors kitchen sink/ washing machine is pretty far away and seems to be showing nothing after dying the gully. Maybe it’s got so far to travel that it’s lying somewhere along the way? I’m not sure..

 

[Ray1991]

Also Iv only had the soapy water through a few times to my knowledge, as I’m not always there. If someone used their washing machine every day it would be pouring through, but this just seems to be sporadic.

 

[BlindPete]

Yes one time I hoovered the water up and you could smell detergent in it pretty strongly! Other times clear, and other times grey. I’ve never heard of this but I’m going to look into it, how do I go about this? thanks!

An old colleague has a beck/stream running past the bottom of his garden. It was usually clean water with fish visible in it and the Heron came by for breakfast. This changed after the water often turned dirty. Sometimes toilet paper and often laundry smelling foam. He had loads of folk out to it trying to find out what the cause was. He eventually got Yorkshire water to sample it and it was a house nearby that had a sneaky drain from an old extension that wasn’t properly connected and not on any drain plans. The house was served with a notice to rectify in quite time.
In your case the mystery water may normally soak away when not much rain has fallen. If the ground is soaked it is likely to be more visible. I’d call your water supplier and ask for help.

 

[88v8]

The reason you get more after rain is that on old properties it was usual to run the grey water and the rain water into the same drain.

What would bother me about this is that it's washing out the foundations.

Grey water, it has to be a sink or bath or washing machine. Some people don't bathe very often or use the machine very often.

Are all the drains to the flats external? If so you should be able to see the run.

Were they always flats? Or is it a conversion? Conversions can be a bit of a bodge.
If there are drains boxed in, inside the flats, that's another place to look.

The drainage unless it's been replaced will be clay, so somewhere there's a leak that backs up when there's a lot of water in the system. Are you at the bottom of the fall? Can you get at manholes further up the drainage run and put a hose down there and see if you get water coming in? Start at the nearest?

All a bit of a pain.

 

[Ray1991]

These have always been flats, although next door they’re house further up the street, then flats again. I’m in the middle of the street and on a slight hill, mine is the first to drop down, the roof line is around 8” lower than the house next to me. All the gully’s in my property and the flat above me (yard next to me) are plastic and have been checked with a camera are fine according to the drainage guys. Only one Iv not checked with a hose pipe are the house next to me where it steps, I know his gully is clay and will get around to checking his with a hose pipe today. I just hate bothering the neighbours with it I feel like a pain in the arse at times!
I do know these houses/flats are built on old mines from years back, wether that has something to do with it I don’t know..
the only thing inside my flat is the soil pipe which comes down from the flat above and it’s all visible and has been checked.
The water board did say a while back there is a big culvert that runs near by that goes covered the area, he said it could be something to do with that but I’m not sure as the soapy water seemed so fresh? I’m not an expert on that department either.
But going to try the hose pipe next door today, so will keep you posted.
Thanks for the reply!
Ray

 

[Ray1991]

And yes I’m worried about the founds washing away too, as you can see on the photos it’s actually eroded a hole through the sand stone so it’s definitely been going on for some time. The neighbours say according to past tenants it’s always been a damp building, I just don’t think it’s been discovered as I had to dig slightly to find that hole if that makes sense

 

[Gothichome]

Ray, and all, I think the soapy water is a bit of a red herring being only occasionally. It would seem from the original post it mostly runs clear, I would be looking at a grading or storm sewer issue. It was mentioned that the grey water and rain water may run into the same utility drain. I’m thinking the main service drain for all the homes may be under sized due to development over time and backs up during rain events, or, there is a break in the service line above the usual day to day usage of grey water flow, when it rains the line files up to the break and flows into the sub soil.

 

[Ray1991]

Grading? And yes it all runs into one and then into the street and drops down into a main drain. I can’t get into the neighbours until next weekend now so can’t check his gully. Really no idea what to do. Usually it’s clear but I’m not often here so it could happen more than I know