Hello from the colonies, well Canada any way.

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MikeG
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Re: Hello from the colonies, well Canada any way.

Post by MikeG » Fri 1st Feb, 2019 11:40 am

Gothichome wrote:
Fri 1st Feb, 2019 1:16 am
Mike, our bricks are 2 1/2x4x8 long. They are a soft brick, and the dimensions are not a perfect size, or the shape all exactly the same. It was suggested to me by a historical fellow that they were probably made on site. As far as the monk bond, there are a few bigger homes in the area using it but the smaller homes seemed mostly to use a simple running bond.
Here is a picture of a wall that was never exposed to the elements.
Image
At the time our home was being built they added a summer kitchen or scullery to the back of the home. It must have been added very shortly after the home was built. The quality of the brick laying is not nearly as good as the main house. The picture I posted is the main house wall that the add on was built against. It was plastered over. When I redid the summer kitchen I removed the plaster. The lime pointing still has the sharp edges from the trowel.
Odd, they looked longer than that. I'd be very surprised if they were made on site. Brickyards used to be set up all over the place, but only where there was a good supply of uniform clay.

Is that photo upside down? If not, then the ruled pointing has been done the wrong way up! But nice to see the white mortar, which always shows bricks off a whole lot better than grey.

Gothichome
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Re: Hello from the colonies, well Canada any way.

Post by Gothichome » Sat 2nd Feb, 2019 1:14 pm

Mike, the picture is right side up. Not sure what your referring to as ‘ruled pointing’ . As far as the manufacture of the bricks I would of expected the bricks to be more uniform in shape, size and colour if factory made. More research is in order.
Ron

MikeG
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Re: Hello from the colonies, well Canada any way.

Post by MikeG » Sat 2nd Feb, 2019 2:17 pm

The line made by the edge of the pointing trowel in the pointing is usually put at the top of the mortar joint, indenting the top, and putting an outward sloping face to the pointing. In your case, it is at the bottom, butting an inward slope to the face of the mortar, and creating a little ledge for moisture to sit on. Obviously it's fine, as it looks in great nick, and it's been like that for 100+ years, so absolutely nothing to worry about.....just curious.

A brickyard would still have made hand-made bricks. My point about them not being made on site is that you need both a good supply of clay and a purpose made kiln to produce bricks. Unless you've got a big hole in the ground, and signs of the base of an old building (often round), then the chances are they were hand-made off-site, and transported to site on a cart (or up the river).

Kearn
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Re: Hello from the colonies, well Canada any way.

Post by Kearn » Sat 2nd Feb, 2019 3:53 pm

MikeG wrote:
Sat 2nd Feb, 2019 2:17 pm
The line made by the edge of the pointing trowel in the pointing is usually put at the top of the mortar joint, indenting the top, and putting an outward sloping face to the pointing. In your case, it is at the bottom, butting an inward slope to the face of the mortar, and creating a little ledge for moisture to sit on. Obviously it's fine, as it looks in great nick, and it's been like that for 100+ years, so absolutely nothing to worry about.....just curious.
I was doing some research recently while investigating and musing our very early Georgian inglenook, based on original appearance when constructed. We have the same finished pointing style, which would've originally been on show. Albeit internally obviously.

I've seen this style referred to as Struck, as opposed to Weather Struck being the more logical indentation you mention. Then again, I've also seen the outwards slope to the bottom as simply called Struck as well!?

MikeG
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Location: Suffolk

Re: Hello from the colonies, well Canada any way.

Post by MikeG » Sat 2nd Feb, 2019 9:09 pm

Struck, in my understanding, doesn't include a line. It is just the mortar cut off flush at the face of the brickwork, rather than ironed in.

TheForge
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Location: Somerset

Re: Hello from the colonies, well Canada any way.

Post by TheForge » Sat 2nd Feb, 2019 11:19 pm

MikeG wrote:
Sat 2nd Feb, 2019 2:17 pm
A brickyard would still have made hand-made bricks. My point about them not being made on site is that you need both a good supply of clay and a purpose made kiln to produce bricks. Unless you've got a big hole in the ground, and signs of the base of an old building (often round), then the chances are they were hand-made off-site, and transported to site on a cart (or up the river).
These bricks don’t look truly handmade to me. It’s difficult to see from the photos but they look too regular. More likely extruded wire cuts.

You don’t need a purpose built kiln to fire bricks on site though. For centuries (in England at least) prior to the industrial revolution the majority of bricks were fired on site in temporary ‘clamps’ in what was known as the country system. Clamps were constructed of bricks to be fired, sometimes with an outer skin of already fired bricks. Such sites would leave little archaeology to discover. I’ve built and fired several and no permenant structure is needed. You’d also be surprised how well a lot of subsoil clay will fire. In this case though, especially given the number of bricks required and the construction date, I would suspect these were made in an industrial brickyard and transported to site.
FA9EBDA8-8EB7-44C3-89FD-E861E9A7B889.jpeg
Brick Clamp
FA9EBDA8-8EB7-44C3-89FD-E861E9A7B889.jpeg (85.66 KiB) Viewed 2344 times

Gothichome
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Re: Hello from the colonies, well Canada any way.

Post by Gothichome » Sun 3rd Feb, 2019 12:58 pm

TheForge, making your own bricks, now that’s dedication to old home restoration. I did some on line research, found that there was a local brick maker in Chatham, at least in the year 1900. Interesting you believe they are factory made brick, I would of expected the brick to be more uniform and maybe denser from the extruding process. If there was a brick maker in Chatham in 1880 then it would make sense to barge them down the river. A river barge trip would be less than an hour trip. Mike, I had another look at the pointing and you are correct the pointing does slope inward from top to bottom. Some thing I had never noticed or even knew about. More research is needed to get this locked down.
You must be an old home owner if a discussion on old bricks gets you excited.

MikeG
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Re: Hello from the colonies, well Canada any way.

Post by MikeG » Sun 3rd Feb, 2019 1:43 pm

Gothichome wrote:
Sun 3rd Feb, 2019 12:58 pm
........ Mike, I had another look at the pointing and you are correct the pointing does slope inward from top to bottom. Some thing I had never noticed or even knew about. More research is needed to get this locked down.
You must be an old home owner if a discussion on old bricks gets you excited.
I'm an architect, dealing mainly with ancient buildings.....but yes, I've spent the last 4 years renovating a near-derelict 300 year old timber framed cottage.

Gothichome
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Re: Hello from the colonies, well Canada any way.

Post by Gothichome » Mon 4th Feb, 2019 12:12 am

Well while i’m Off researching my bricks I thought I would post the view from my back yard.
Image
If my bricks did come from from a factory they would have come down from this direction.
If you look really closely you can see a bit of a one of the oldest homes in the area (just a little bit at 2:00), a Georgian home that was involved in the war of 1812. It would have been a fairly new home at the time.

MikeG
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Re: Hello from the colonies, well Canada any way.

Post by MikeG » Mon 4th Feb, 2019 8:22 am

I had a quick look on google earth at your location, mainly because I was curious about all the English names. Boy, it's flat, isn't it!

Gothichome
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Re: Hello from the colonies, well Canada any way.

Post by Gothichome » Tue 5th Feb, 2019 12:39 am

Mike, this area was once just a heavily forested wetland before settlers moved into the area. The whole area is drained via drain ditches. And heavily lumbered for the Oak, ash and walnut. If the ditches were to be filled in it would once again return to wetland, only with out the trees.
I thought I would post a bit of superstition we found while doing some electrical work.
Image
Gothichome is protected by a talisman, we have a pair of shoes in the wall beside the front door, placed there when the home was built to protect the home and those with in from even spirits. I’m sure many of you hear have also found such things.
Ron

MikeG
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Re: Hello from the colonies, well Canada any way.

Post by MikeG » Wed 6th Feb, 2019 8:25 pm

TheForge wrote:
Sat 2nd Feb, 2019 11:19 pm
...... For centuries (in England at least) prior to the industrial revolution the majority of bricks were fired on site in temporary ‘clamps’ in what was known as the country system.........
Found it! I snapped this in Zambia a few years ago:

Image

You can just see the firewood stack being started in one of the chambers.

Gothichome
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Re: Hello from the colonies, well Canada any way.

Post by Gothichome » Fri 8th Feb, 2019 2:27 am

Mike, most folks when traveling Africa take pics of giraffes, elephants,lions,ect. But I guess the old home architect in you just had to take a pic of a clamp :)
Folks, I could keep posting individual pics of our restoration efforts on Gothichome or you can see lots of pics and conversations on our efforts here.
https://thehistoricdistrict.org/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=193
It’s a chat site just like this one, I have a 46 page thread with chronological documentation (lots of pictures) of our efforts.
Ron

Westholme
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Location: Gloucestershire

Re: Hello from the colonies, well Canada any way.

Post by Westholme » Sat 9th Feb, 2019 2:38 am

Gothichome wrote:
Fri 8th Feb, 2019 2:27 am
Folks, I could keep posting individual pics of our restoration efforts on Gothichome or you can see lots of pics and conversations on our efforts here.
https://thehistoricdistrict.org/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=193
It’s a chat site just like this one, I have a 46 page thread with chronological documentation (lots of pictures) of our efforts.
Ron
Thanks for the link, it was an interesting read. You seem to have a lot of antiques in your house.

I'm particularly interested in fireplaces and chimneys just now as I'm in the process of removing most of a chimney breast from what was the kitchen. My house is semi-detached, built in 1894 with eight proper rooms (excluding hallway) and seven fireplaces.

Your house looks larger than mine and my next door neighbour's combined and yet you say it has only four flues and there appears to be just a single chimney stack intact with two flues. I'm wondering how the other rooms without proper fireplaces were heated. You mention wood-burning stoves - where did the smoke go from these?

Gothichome
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Re: Hello from the colonies, well Canada any way.

Post by Gothichome » Sat 9th Feb, 2019 12:42 pm

Westholme, our home has only one fireplace, the rest of the heat was provided by parlour stoves in the main down stairs rooms and smaller stoves in each bedroom. Two of these each shared the same flue.

‘Multiple Fireplaces on Different Floors Sharing a Single Flue
Fireplaces sharing a flue (C) Carson Dunlop Associates

Older homes were often constructed with two fireplaces sharing the same flue on the same floor or even on different floors.

Although this arrangement is sometimes found still in use today, this installation may not be permitted in your locale, and there are fire and smoke spread hazards as well as possible draft adequacy questions.’

Although it would be rare to build this arrangement now, I guess it wasn’t an issue at the time. As it stands today Gothichomes second chimney stack has been knocked bown to just above roof height so it can’t be seen in the pics. We are only using one flue for the forced air furnace, the other three have been abandoned. The original and only fireplace had its firebox bricked in long ago. At some point we would like to get it functioning once again but that opens up a whole new box of worms and of course money.

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