Advice on sash furniture

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Craig89
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Location: Shropshire

Advice on sash furniture

Post by Craig89 » Wed 6th Feb, 2019 10:46 am

Im currently having my timber double glazed sash windows made and I have been asked what furniture and fasteners I would like.

Can anybody offer any advice if any fasteners are any better than others for one reason or another? Due to them being double glazed a narrow type fastener is prefered and the Brighton style is a no go because they can spring up and hit the glass so I have been told.

Im also torn between a brass or an antique brass finish. I prefer the antique brass finish but if its just a coating thats going to wear off then its not worth the extra money.

Any advice appreciated.

Thanks, Craig

Abi Cott
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Re: Advice on sash furniture

Post by Abi Cott » Wed 6th Feb, 2019 2:23 pm

Some sort of locking function can make your insurance company happy

steveb
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Re: Advice on sash furniture

Post by steveb » Wed 6th Feb, 2019 2:31 pm

we had locking fitch fasteners, a bit like this:

https://www.mightonproducts.com/locking ... tin-chrome

Look like a normal fitch when viewed but have a recessed bolt that can be raised with a "key" (more of an allen key really) that stops the fastener from being opened when locked.

We're by the coast and the supplier recommended chrome furniture and stainless screws for maximum corrosion resistance

kreyszig
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Re: Advice on sash furniture

Post by kreyszig » Wed 6th Feb, 2019 3:09 pm

antique brass is seldom any good - if you mean the "brushed" look with a lacquer I would steer clear as to my eye it looks awful.
e.g. Image]
You can get antique brass that is chemically aged, which looks great. If you polish it, you get back to clean brass.
e.g. Image

Craig89
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Location: Shropshire

Re: Advice on sash furniture

Post by Craig89 » Wed 6th Feb, 2019 6:52 pm

I wasnt going to go for locking ones but hadnt considered the impact on house insurance.

My joiner said that the fitch type is a popular one.

I like brass im just not a fan of it brand new yellow and polished. Theres a good chance I will buy the polished brass furniture and chemically age it myself.

Is 1 fastener sufficient for a window of approx 4ft wide?

Another question, as regards to opening the sashes, the top rail on the upper sash is going to be just out of reach. What are the best methods of grabbing the top sash and pulling them down. On the bottom sash im probably going to fit the finger lift type items on the bottom rail.

Thanks again

88v8
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Re: Advice on sash furniture

Post by 88v8 » Thu 7th Feb, 2019 9:33 am

I'd be looking in eBay for fasteners, or in local salvage yards.

Here's a new one
https://theperiodironmonger.co.uk/produ ... h-fastener
The disadvantage of this type is that it doesn't pull the meet rails together.

This does
https://theperiodironmonger.co.uk/produ ... h-fastener
and it locks.
The shine can be taken off by stripping the lacquer with acetone (nail varnish remover), then it will tone down naturally.

For locking, two period methods:

Sash screw through the meet rails.
https://www.mightonproducts.com/product ... lsashscrew
This is used to secure it when shut.

and sash stops, two per sash pair.
https://www.locksonline.co.uk/Sash-Wind ... -Stop.html

These are positioned in the side rails, such that the window can be open a few inches.
Used, especially in summer, for draught-free ventilation.

The way that works, say you position the stops to allow the sash to open 3"; then you make up a 3" board to go under the bottom sash. Open the bottom sash, fit the board, close the sash and screw in the sash stops. Now, the window is secure, but you have ventilation between the meet rails.

While you're having new windows made, take the opportunity to hang them on chains, not cord. Cord breaks, cha\ins will last for ever.
https://www.mightonproducts.com/product ... ccessories
The brass linked is fine.

Chain needs square pulleys
https://www.mightonproducts.com/antique ... quare-ends

Chains not 'period'? Visit Hampton Court, you'll see sashes in the basement on chains.
Smooth running, ever lasting, at least they lasted the 30 years we were in our previous house, where I fitted then in our new custom-made windows.

Oh, forgot... high sash.... fit a pair of brass handles under the top sash,
https://www.houseofantiquehardware.com/ ... ategory=72 (except that this is in the US)
so yes, they will be on the outside, then one opens the top by lifting up the lower sash, reaching up to the handles and pulling the top sash down, and closing the lower sash.
Sounds a faff? No.....

Ivor
Last edited by 88v8 on Thu 7th Feb, 2019 9:43 am, edited 2 times in total.

CliffordPope
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Re: Advice on sash furniture

Post by CliffordPope » Thu 7th Feb, 2019 9:38 am

88v8 wrote:
Thu 7th Feb, 2019 9:33 am

https://theperiodironmonger.co.uk/produ ... h-fastener
The disadvantage of this type is that it doesn't pull the meet rails together.


Doesn't it? I thought that's the point of the quadrant?
It depends on aligning and spacing the two sections.

88v8
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Re: Advice on sash furniture

Post by 88v8 » Thu 7th Feb, 2019 9:45 am

CliffordPope wrote:
Thu 7th Feb, 2019 9:38 am
Doesn't it? I thought that's the point of the quadrant?
It depends on aligning and spacing the two sections.
Hmmm, hadn't noticed the quadrant, that's lacking in the varieties I've seen. Indeed, I have one in my locks drawer in the garage, that doesn't.
I think you're right.
So, another option.

Ivor

Feltwell
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Re: Advice on sash furniture

Post by Feltwell » Thu 7th Feb, 2019 1:37 pm

Will reply properly later (when not sat in an airport!) but Broughtons of Leicester do a very good range of sash furniture that is well aged - bright shiny lacquered brass is not something I’m a fan off, goes tatty looking as well.

Feltwell
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Re: Advice on sash furniture

Post by Feltwell » Fri 8th Feb, 2019 12:55 pm

Here's Broughtons range of antique brass:-

https://www.broughtons.com/store/filter ... 86eac3758/

I fitted these to my restored bay sashes -

https://www.broughtons.com/store/produc ... tin-brass/

I'm pleased with those, although I did have to use a needle file to make the locking arm catch a little squarer on the end so it locked properly. Mine have aged in further since fitting.

Antiquing fluid for non-polished brass is good stuff, I keep a jam jar of watered down fluid for ageing brass screws - works a treat. This is the stuff I bought, I don't leave things in long enough to go as brown as the picture:-

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Clark-s-Anti ... :rk:9:pf:0

Craig89
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Re: Advice on sash furniture

Post by Craig89 » Fri 8th Feb, 2019 3:38 pm

Thanks for the comprehensive reply Ivor, plenty to think about. Those fasterners and locking systems do look interesting. I must confess however im not sure how I feel about having handles on the outside of the windows for opening them.

I am a fan of those fasteners Feltwell, I feel however that they will be too deep for my sashes as they will be double glazed.

I have had a flick through that site and there are a wild range of prices with some seriously expensive items on there and some more reasonable items but as long as its good quality stuff then I suppose you get what you pay for.

One question that may have been missed, do you feel one fastener is enough for a 4ft-ish wide window?

Thanks

Feltwell
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Re: Advice on sash furniture

Post by Feltwell » Fri 8th Feb, 2019 8:06 pm

I think one fastener is fine - my centre bay window is 8' tall x 4' wide, with one fastener. They don't actually do much, they're under no strain as such, just stop anyone being able to lift them open! I'll measure the depth of my fasteners if it'll help.

88v8
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Re: Advice on sash furniture

Post by 88v8 » Sat 9th Feb, 2019 9:44 am

Craig89 wrote:
Fri 8th Feb, 2019 3:38 pm
I must confess however im not sure how I feel about having handles on the outside of the windows for opening them.
I think that was quite a common feature back in the day.
Another option would be a short pole with a hook on the end, such as shopkeepers used to pull down their sun blinds... remember those civilised days when shops had sun blinds.... like this.
https://www.amazon.com/Window-Blind-Pol ... B007KQBUII

Thus in the top rail of the top sash there will be a corresponding receiver, basically a brass hole recessed into the rail.

Ivor

Craig89
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Location: Shropshire

Re: Advice on sash furniture

Post by Craig89 » Sat 9th Feb, 2019 1:59 pm

I think I will go with just the one fastener, save a bit of money if nothing else. If you can measure the keep that would be good, I will ask the joiner what we have to play with.

To me the handles just seem like somewhere a would be thief could get a good hold of. The pole idea could be an option, I will put the ideas to my partner and see what she thinks

Feltwell
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Re: Advice on sash furniture

Post by Feltwell » Sat 9th Feb, 2019 3:07 pm

The rear part of the fastener, i.e. the bit with the pivot on, is 23mm deep front to back.

I think the best option for one which is smaller in this dimension would be something like this:-

https://www.broughtons.com/store/produc ... tin-brass/
Craig89 wrote:
Sat 9th Feb, 2019 1:59 pm
I will put the ideas to my partner and see what she thinks
Wise man :wink: :lol:

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