Paints

[overlander matt]

Thanks for the link Abi Cott. That's an interesting discussion. I'm in (at least) two minds over the paint choices - F&B have no shortage of colour options and are a fair bit cheaper than the clay based paints from Earthborn but perhaps do not cover so well. I think this means we will try out both options and see how we go. With little children in the house I feel there will be a few coats going on over the years to come.

[TheForge]

There are other traditional, permeable options beyond F&B and Earthborn if you aren’t happy with these.

Have a look at Little Green, Rose of Jericho, Ingilby or Edward Bulmer.

[TheRoost]

Bedec MSP - no reason not to use it internally. Drying time will certainly be a lot better than solvent based.

If you want high gloss though, solvent is still the way to go I'm told.

I prefer a less shiny finish, and Bedec MSP has been fine on the inside of sashes. I've just yet to do much other internal decorating since discovering it about 4 years ago!

What is the finish like with Bedec MSP? Can you get it to flow anything like an oil based eggshell paint, without brush marks? It's a good few years since I tried painting a door with water based paint.

Also, does it have to be applied to bare wood or can it go over old coats of paint?

[Craig89]

I dont have much experience of other paints but MSP dries nicely with very little brush marks.

It will go over other coats of paint fine provided the existing paint is adhered well.

Hope that helps

[Socksitis]

Hi,
I likes the Earthborn claypaints but found the colours took on a shade lighter in reality when the whole room was done.
I do like the Kiem paints - the colours are amazing, every shade of and found they have gone on just as well.
I have also used the Seciltek paints inside, especially on the unknown areas, so the ceilings where there were before products on the lime plaster and I did not want to take the texture away from the ceilings as they show the history of layers of products. I also used the Seciltek in the stair turret and the back kitchen where the walls were original and shall we say dubious. The back kitchen was painted stonework. Very pleased with the Seciltek, although it does smell when using it.

[88v8]

I'm painting with MSP at the moment.
The finish is acceptable outdoors, but it's not smooth in the way that oil is smooth, so it will dirty sooner.
I have an excellent ability to ignore dirty paint, so I'm trading that against what I hope may be better durability.

Indoors? If you don't mind a second-rate finish compared to a good oil, I suppose it would be OK. On doors it would be particularly hopeless as it dries so fast one can't cut in. By the time one gets to the overlap, it's already dry.
If one had never worked with an oil paint, one might think MSP is OK, but imho it's a paint for them as don't like painting.

MSP, like other water-base paints, works best with a synthetic brush. (Thanks to a PPFer for that tip). And stop quite frequently to wash out the brush, otherwise it will be a claggy mess by the time you're done.

Ivor

[overlander matt]

I've been slapping the MSP on some external wooden cornicing over the weekend. I'm now on my third 2.5L tin... Thumbs up (sore ones) so far.

Back to the inside of the house, I really need to make a decision choosing a suitable white paint for the ceilings. I would favour anything scoring highly in terms of breathability and economy (available in large tins) - anyone have any preferences?

Thank you in advance.

Matt

[Feltwell]

Back to the inside of the house, I really need to make a decision choosing a suitable white paint for the ceilings. I would favour anything scoring highly in terms of breathability and economy (available in large tins) - anyone have any preferences?

If it makes the choice easier Matt, breathability doesn't matter for ceilings, modern emulsions are fine. Just avoid Pure Brilliant White - rarely looks right in an old house. I confess I usually just go for Dulux Trade matt emulsion, mixed to a slightly-off white.

[TheForge]

Whilst what Feltwell says is broadly true it isn’t quite as simple as too say modern emulsions would be fine in every case. If new lime plaster or plaster repairs are involved I would be wary of emulsions reducing the ability of the plaster to carbonate.

Also if the ceiling contains decorative details (cornices, roses for example) then the reversibility of the paint becomes a consideration, as layers of modern emulsions soon obscure and destroy the details. Soft distemper is a traditional ceiling finish and is more permeable than a modern emulsion with the added bonus of being able to be removed with a sponge and some elbow grease if into detail. Essentially it’s water, gelatine, chalk/China clay and pigment if required.

Most modern whites contain titanium dioxide, which gives the brilliant white look. From the 1870s lithopone was used which creates a subtler colour and there are still a few specialist manufacturers who use this. Historically chalk, China clay or marble dust were also used to create white.

[Feltwell]

Whilst what Feltwell says is broadly true it isn’t quite as simple as too say modern emulsions would be fine in every case. If new lime plaster or plaster repairs are involved I would be wary of emulsions reducing the ability of the plaster to carbonate.

Fair points throughout. Ceilings here are of the plain and unrepaired variety in the rooms that have been done, which may not be the case for Matt.

[overlander matt]

Thanks for your comments. I just need to find something available in massive tubs! I can fully understand the need for something breathable - in our case we do have cornicing and probably will paint the walls down to a picture rail on newly lime plastered (well, top coat only) walls so probably it's best to go with the traditional...

The problem I face is that previous owners certainly have not worried what has gone on the walls, ceilings and anywhere else. It's all well and good thinking breathability but I do wonder what difference it makes when the lime plastered walls have been painted previously in emulsion. I have had to be a bit pragmatic and had to live with what is on the walls - give it a good scraping, get rid of any gypsum then use a primer to put on a top coat. Where walls have been artexed (only 2 rooms), these will be skimmed with gypsum if they are internal. It would not be feasible to strip it all off and start again unless there are problem signs...

As for emulsion on the cornicing, that really makes me cross. I have been putting off doing anything to these areas but it is a looming requirement to start getting these rooms ready for painting. Anyone have any idea how to treat such areas? I have a specialist coming in to repair cornicing next week but he didn't have many good ideas - 'once it's on it's on' was his view. Great!

So, still on the look out for large tubs of white...

Thanks,

Matt

[TheForge]

Matt, you’ll need a poultice to strip emulsion from your cornicing. Peelaway 1 or 7 or Klingstrip being three options. You’ll also need to fully neutralise it prior to repainting in a true soft distemper.

As for other areas of emulsion there is little advantage in using anything but emulsion. If you are concerned for authenticity, tonal variety or colour quality a casein distemper will go over a multitude of sins including emulsion, gypsum etc.

[overlander matt]

Thank you for the suggestions. I will order a Peelaway 1 and 7 sample and try it out. I have wondered just how messy it is when used indoors.

As for the paints, I see the F&B 5L casein distemper is around £95 and Rose of Jericho £55. That's quite a difference. How many coats would you typically need to put on for a decent coverage?

Two more weeks of external works to go and then I can get back onto the internal works.

Thanks TheForge.

Matt

[TheForge]

Hi Matt,
Normally 2 coats of ROJ casein distemper will cover most surfaces, it’s thicker and more heavily pigmented than F&B distemper so tends to cover better. You’ll get up to about 75m2 per 5 litre tin coverage, dependent on surface and porosity. Soft distemper will go a bit further.

[Abi Cott]

From experience the application and stripping process with poltice strippers is quite clean and easy. It's the neutralizing process that you have to watch. That can be rather messy to do effectively.