Paints

Although we're not quite ready to start painting anything internally just yet, I am starting to look at some of the paint and other materials we are likely to need once we are ready to start decorating. As this is our first house requiring special paints, I thought I would ask how others have got on with sourcing suitable paints. Are there any recommended suppliers or paints for walls (mostly freshly plastered lime) and woodwork? I have been using the Bedec MSP on external timber and windows so far. How about suitable fillers and primer for the woodwork?

As always, thank you in advance for sharing any experiences.

Matt

I'm very impressed with Earthborn Claypaint on internal walls.
It has fantastic covering power and it dries with a totally matt finish which I love on old lime walls.

Or, I've used homemade lime wash as well which costs just pennies per gallon to make and gives the totally authentic period finish.
It takes a lot more coats of lime wash though than the claypaint to get good coverage.

Hi Matt,

You’ll want permeable and ideally porous paints over new lime plaster. The longer you can allow the plaster to carbonate prior to decorating the better also, although limewash can be applied fairly soon to drying plaster. The permeability of the paint will allow the plaster to continue to cure.

Internally limewashing can be messy as it is very thin and will splatter and splash. A distemper, effectively gelatin, China clay/chalk as a filler, water and pigment, is often a more manageable option internally. For increased performance a casein or linseed oil bound distemper could be used. Coverage is good, around 50-75m2 per coat per 5 litres and the finish will be matt.

See www.roseofjericho.co.uk for more details on traditional distempers and limewashes.

Clay paints are currently popular and have had widespread marketing but these are effectively slightly modernised distempers, marketed by Earthborn and others.

Any acrylic based paint will be micro porous at best and not permeable to the same degree as the above.

For a house of that nature I would have expected most of the walls to be wallpapered, especially the formal rooms and hall?

Have used clay paint on lime, I thinned all coats about 30% as it's very gloopy.
New lime plaster needs to sit at least 3 months before painting, although I defer to TheForge as regards limewah.

Internally for woodwork I'm still using oil paint which I think gives superior finish and durability and is certainly more pleasant to apply than acrylics. A mix of satin and gloss, with the gloss being used for window boards and perhaps skirtings. I use Sikkens AZ Rubbol.
Knotting, oil primer, oil undercoat.

Ivor

Me! said:

I'm very impressed with Earthborn Claypaint on internal walls.
It has fantastic covering power and it dries with a totally matt finish which I love on old lime walls.

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I've also been impressed with Earthborn clay paint, especially its covering power.

I'm also particularly unimpressed with F&B distemper. I recently used F&B 'Brinjal', which is quite a dark colour and (apparently) 'difficult' for distemper-type paints. After five coats - yes five! - the coverage was still visibly patchy. Having recently found 'Auro' clay paint I though I'd give this a try as they could mix a very close colour match to the F&B 'Brinjal'. After just one coat the wall was no longer visibly patchy (OK, it did have five layers of F&B 'undercoat' but still!) and looks fine.

Interestingly, the 'Auro' paint I ordered came in a tin labelled 'Edward Bulmer Natural Paint' and their website is also worth a look. I've no idea why they market these brands separately but their 'contact' addresses are both the same.

Flyfisher said:

I'm also particularly unimpressed with F&B distemper. I recently used F&B 'Brinjal', which is quite a dark colour and (apparently) 'difficult' for distemper-type paints. After five coats - yes five! - the coverage was still visibly patchy.

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It is difficult to achieve dark colours in a distemper as the filler being chalk or china clay make the base inherently white and the addition of pigment is then fighting to counter act that.

If powdered pigments are used there is only so much pigment that can be held by the paint before it becomes difficult to paint out. The addition of dies and stainers may combat the problem. Alternatively reducing the amount of filler can help achieve a darker colour but this reduces the opacity of the paint leading to more coats to achieve the same depth of finish.

Thanks for the information. I picked up a few product brochures at the LPOC show in London earlier in the year, one of which was Earthborn's. It's good to hear actual feedback on the paint. Does one use a basecoat/primer on the bare plaster? I'm a bit worried by the 3 months drying time mentioned for the new lime plaster before painting - in our case we are putting a new top coat over whatever was there previously normally with some DG27 primer. Hopefully this won't require as much time before painting? When it comes to breathability of the walls, I really would not like to say how they will behave with the cement pointing, painted walls and wallpaper paste that has gone on previously. All you can do is to try to do the right thing I guess, hence the breathable paint. I am also a bit concerned by teh durability of these paints - we have two young children who are going to leave marks. How do the paints stand up to children and animals?

Thanks Ivor for your paint advice. No mention of the Bedec MSP being used internally then... I was thinking about oil based for the woodwork given previous experience with poor coverage. We have lots of shutters to paint and the fewer coats I can get away with the better.

Thanks again.

Matt

overlander matt said:

Thanks for the information. I picked up a few product brochures at the LPOC show in London earlier in the year, one of which was Earthborn's. It's good to hear actual feedback on the paint. Does one use a basecoat/primer on the bare plaster? I'm a bit worried by the 3 months drying time mentioned for the new lime plaster before painting - in our case we are putting a new top coat over whatever was there previously normally with some DG27 primer. Hopefully this won't require as much time before painting? When it comes to breathability of the walls, I really would not like to say how they will behave with the cement pointing, painted walls and wallpaper paste that has gone on previously. All you can do is to try to do the right thing I guess, hence the breathable paint. I am also a bit concerned by teh durability of these paints - we have two young children who are going to leave marks. How do the paints stand up to children and animals?

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If one is papering, prime with glue size.
Wallpaper can be protected from sticky fingers with paper varnish.
If one is painting the walls, thin the first coat more. It needs to sink in.

The 3 months is for a full depth of plaster. If we were foreign I'd say one week per mm. I recall reading an item about an NT restoration where they were waiting a year before overcoating new plaster.

Clay paint is matt, so any stains will be hard to remove.

One will never do harm by using lime plaster and permeable paints, but if the house has a functioning dpc then breathability of the walls should not be an essential as they won't be damp. Not to say there won't be condensation problems if there is inadequate ventilation, but provided one has plenty of open fireplaces, extractor fans, and one isn't doing silly things like using an unvented tumble dryer or drying clothes indoors, the permeability or otherwise of the walls should not matter.

The house was lime plastered not because of breathing, but because lime was what there was.

Oil paint is more durable than acrylic. Gloss, although Period 'wrong', is more durable than satin as it has more pigment.

Perhaps you could lend the children to someone for a few years or send them to boarding school. Or teach them painting and decorating, then they'll have a trade to fall back on

Ivor

overlander matt said:

Thanks for the information. I picked up a few product brochures at the LPOC show in London earlier in the year, one of which was Earthborn's. It's good to hear actual feedback on the paint. Does one use a basecoat/primer on the bare plaster? I'm a bit worried by the 3 months drying time mentioned for the new lime plaster before painting - in our case we are putting a new top coat over whatever was there previously normally with some DG27 primer. Hopefully this won't require as much time before painting? When it comes to breathability of the walls, I really would not like to say how they will behave with the cement pointing, painted walls and wallpaper paste that has gone on previously. All you can do is to try to do the right thing I guess, hence the breathable paint. I am also a bit concerned by teh durability of these paints - we have two young children who are going to leave marks. How do the paints stand up to children and animals?



Thanks again.

Matt

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Earthborn have a page on this - 1week per mm basically and apply a mist coat first:
https://earthbornpaints.co.uk/how-to-paint-onto-new-and-bare-plaster/

Penny

Thanks Penny. They have a pretty good Q&A section on the website but it does make me chuckle when I see a description such as 'dilute the paint' and then don't follow up with a measure of dilution... Perhaps it just depends?

As for your wise words Ivor, I will have to see how much boarding school costs compared to claypaint! There's probably not much in it. On the subject of breathability, the house was not previously damp and has had a few modern alterations carried out that would not have helped. I'm hoping that this equilibrium will not have been shifted by draft proofing the windows and a bit of underfloor insulation, I do hope some lime mortar pointing and plaster will help.

Looking forward to some decorating in another couple of months!


Matt

Do people not use the Bedec MSP internally then?

My internal walls and woodwork have been painted with Farrow & Ball Estate Emulsion & Eggshell by the previous owners. Am I correct in assuming that will make it pointless to paint in something more breathable such as Earthborne's clay paints mentioned? The outside walls have been painted with Dulux Weathershield. But as the external walls were re-rendered in cement in the 80's that is less of an issue.

Bedec MSP - no reason not to use it internally. Drying time will certainly be a lot better than solvent based.

If you want high gloss though, solvent is still the way to go I'm told.

I prefer a less shiny finish, and Bedec MSP has been fine on the inside of sashes. I've just yet to do much other internal decorating since discovering it about 4 years ago! :lol:

ElectronicFur said:

My internal walls and woodwork have been painted with Farrow & Ball Estate Emulsion & Eggshell by the previous owners. Am I correct in assuming that will make it pointless to paint in something more breathable such as Earthborne's clay paints mentioned?

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Farrow and Ball Estate Emulsion is supposedly quite breathable. It's very hard to compare paints for this quality, but from what I can find the estate emulsion is nearly as breathable as clay paint. However that is not true of their modern emulsion.

Abi Cott said:

Farrow and Ball Estate Emulsion is supposedly quite breathable. It's very hard to compare paints for this quality, but from what I can find the estate emulsion is nearly as breathable as clay paint. However that is not true of their modern emulsion.

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Thanks, I didn't know that. Another option is for us to stick to the F&B Estate paints internally then. Can anyone tell me how they compare to using the Bedec MSP?

This is the thread I was most involved in on the subject of breathability, its probably not the only one, but it illustrates the questions and the real lack of comparable information. You pays your money and takes your chance.

https://www.periodproperty.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=16282&p=222010&hilit=Clay+paint#p222010

Thanks for the link Abi Cott. That's an interesting discussion. I'm in (at least) two minds over the paint choices - F&B have no shortage of colour options and are a fair bit cheaper than the clay based paints from Earthborn but perhaps do not cover so well. I think this means we will try out both options and see how we go. With little children in the house I feel there will be a few coats going on over the years to come.

There are other traditional, permeable options beyond F&B and Earthborn if you aren’t happy with these.

Have a look at Little Green, Rose of Jericho, Ingilby or Edward Bulmer.

Feltwell said:

Bedec MSP - no reason not to use it internally. Drying time will certainly be a lot better than solvent based.

If you want high gloss though, solvent is still the way to go I'm told.

I prefer a less shiny finish, and Bedec MSP has been fine on the inside of sashes. I've just yet to do much other internal decorating since discovering it about 4 years ago! :lol:

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What is the finish like with Bedec MSP? Can you get it to flow anything like an oil based eggshell paint, without brush marks? It's a good few years since I tried painting a door with water based paint.

Also, does it have to be applied to bare wood or can it go over old coats of paint?

I dont have much experience of other paints but MSP dries nicely with very little brush marks.

It will go over other coats of paint fine provided the existing paint is adhered well.

Hope that helps

Hi,
I likes the Earthborn claypaints but found the colours took on a shade lighter in reality when the whole room was done.
I do like the Kiem paints - the colours are amazing, every shade of and found they have gone on just as well.
I have also used the Seciltek paints inside, especially on the unknown areas, so the ceilings where there were before products on the lime plaster and I did not want to take the texture away from the ceilings as they show the history of layers of products. I also used the Seciltek in the stair turret and the back kitchen where the walls were original and shall we say dubious. The back kitchen was painted stonework. Very pleased with the Seciltek, although it does smell when using it.