Period Garden Wall Coping

For discussions about topics related to Period Property in the UK

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88v8
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Location: Glorious Gloucs

Re: Period Garden Wall Coping

Post by 88v8 » Mon 10th May, 2021 9:46 am

The wall looks quite Flemish at the moment, with that diaper effect.

The overhang should be at least an inch each side, I would think.

So, this https://specialbricks.wienerberger.co.u ... ing-brick/ is what you want, presumably they can be made, at a price.

Likewise here where there are options of half round and saddleback https://brickmongerslondon.co.uk/produc ... ing-cp1-1/

For the quantity you need it's going to be hard finding reclaims, especially if you prefer them to match. The 'easy' solution would be tile drips, but they always seem to me rather fragile.

Yes, as you're doing the wall in lime, I'd use NHL5 for the top. Otherwise it will look as if some cowboy has come along and replaced the coping. No, it won't last for ever, but it will as far as we're concerned.

Ivor

malcolm
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Joined: Wed 18th Sep, 2013 6:21 pm
Location: Bedford UK

Re: Period Garden Wall Coping

Post by malcolm » Mon 10th May, 2021 4:36 pm

88v8 wrote:
Mon 10th May, 2021 9:46 am
Yes, as you're doing the wall in lime, I'd use NHL5 for the top. Otherwise it will look as if some cowboy has come along and replaced the coping. No, it won't last for ever, but it will as far as we're concerned.
Good point - I'll go for NHL 5.

I bought a wall worth of half round coping bricks for £1.75 each. They can be £7 each which is bad when you want 270 of them. They all seem to be 9 inch and designed to sit on plinth bricks or creasing tiles. Plinth bricks are too expensive so it'll likely be tiles. I've seen 11 inch reclaimed roofing tiles but not locally yet.

Seems odd there don't seem to be suitably sized creasing tiles available, though with the price of coping bricks I guess there isn't much demand.

a twig
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Joined: Sun 6th Oct, 2013 10:18 pm

Re: Period Garden Wall Coping

Post by a twig » Tue 11th May, 2021 7:40 pm

18mm will be tight, but if you cut a rain drip in it as close to the edge as possible it should be fine. However you will get likely splashing at the bottom of the wall, depending what the drips are landing on.

Being cheap, you could cut the 265mm creasing tiles in half, allowing you to pull the two halves apart to give you the same overhang as an 11" - the gap will end up hidden underneath the coping, so could easily be filled with mortar?

malcolm
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Location: Bedford UK

Re: Period Garden Wall Coping

Post by malcolm » Tue 11th May, 2021 7:59 pm

a twig wrote:
Tue 11th May, 2021 7:40 pm
18mm will be tight, but if you cut a rain drip in it as close to the edge as possible it should be fine. However you will get likely splashing at the bottom of the wall, depending what the drips are landing on.

Being cheap, you could cut the 265mm creasing tiles in half, allowing you to pull the two halves apart to give you the same overhang as an 11" - the gap will end up hidden underneath the coping, so could easily be filled with mortar?
No harm in cutting the tiles in half. That's a good idea. I can set them up with a string each side to make them neat. Could even tip them down a little to each side to create the drip. My bricklaying book suggests 25mm to 40mm overhang. I think about 30mm would look nice. Anything less looks mean and any more looks a bit sticky out.

george2019
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Joined: Mon 18th Feb, 2019 4:25 pm

Re: Period Garden Wall Coping

Post by george2019 » Mon 17th May, 2021 3:47 pm

malcolm wrote:
Sun 9th May, 2021 6:05 pm
Bricklaying continues slowly. The stretchers are the 200 year old originals turned around to hide the spalled side. Most have lost about 1/2 inch from spalling and they are looking surprisingly good.

I'm still fixated on coping even though I have plenty of time to get prepared. The wall is 9 inch, and for an inch overhang of tile creasing I would need 11 inch (280mm) creasing. But they only seem to make it in 265mm which gives me 18mm overhang. Would that be enough? Maybe I could cut a drip edge in with a grinder. These poorly made and badly damaged bricks have only one chance left.

Also I was wondering about the mortar fillet above the creasing tiles. Has anyone tried NHL 5 for that? It would look better but cement would probably weather in over a few years. Would that be a better choice?

Image
Standard detail now is 40mm overhang (see this document https://www.brick.org.uk/admin/resource ... ckwork.pdf), but that is for all heights of wall. If it's a short-ish wall in a more sheltered environment then you can get away with less. However, 18mm is a little tight, especially given the necessary generous tolerances when using old/reclaimed bricks.

I think the tiles is the best option. Yes it's not what would have been built originally, but it's a reasonable update in order to protect what is original.

RBailey
Posts: 199
Joined: Thu 1st Aug, 2019 7:25 am
Location: Rutland

Re: Period Garden Wall Coping

Post by RBailey » Mon 17th May, 2021 4:02 pm

You wall is looking good Malcom.


I thought I would trim our front hedge this weekend, that turned into removing a bit of Ivy.
Image

I HATE IVV !!!!!

That turned into needing to re-cement the capping :roll:
Image

Re-pointing also required but the capping was urgent as the wall is one a public footpath.

Cheers,
Richard B.

overlander matt
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Re: Period Garden Wall Coping

Post by overlander matt » Tue 18th May, 2021 10:27 pm

Looks like it is coming along well Malcolm. Out of interest, how many bricks are you laying a day? Do you find there is lots of faffing around finding the right brick? I've just finished a 5-day bricklaying basics course very and now feel confident to tackle the garden wall projects that await in due course but I'm keen to see how others are getting on with their wall rebuilds. How do you normally point/finish the joints in your brickwork?

Keep up the good work!

Matt

a twig
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Re: Period Garden Wall Coping

Post by a twig » Wed 19th May, 2021 9:04 am

For me personally the right brick is usually whichever one happens to be the nearest.

Finishing wise, I slightly “over mortar” so you get a good “squish” out the sides. Whip the excess off with the edge of the trowel, then use a brick jointer once the mortar has stiffened a bit to get a nice finish.

Once I’ve finished for the day I’ll take any excess mortar and go back over pointing in any holes or cockups. That’s usually just using the jointer to shove it in off a trowel.

I’ll freely admit I’m very slow, most I’ve done in a day is probably 40-50 (no labourer and mixing up by hand) - caveated with I’ve never had a long straight wall I could set up a line for etc so each one has been spirit levelled. Under ideal conditions I could maybe do 70-80?

stuart45
Posts: 269
Joined: Wed 14th Apr, 2010 8:34 pm
Location: Somerset, England

Re: Period Garden Wall Coping

Post by stuart45 » Wed 19th May, 2021 3:50 pm

There are over 20 different types of joint finishes, but I think the worst is the Weeping joint sometimes used in the USA. Looks like the inside of a poorly built cavity wall.
DSC00145.jpg
DSC00145.jpg (121.23 KiB) Viewed 483 times

malcolm
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Location: Bedford UK

Re: Period Garden Wall Coping

Post by malcolm » Wed 19th May, 2021 5:05 pm

overlander matt wrote:
Tue 18th May, 2021 10:27 pm
Looks like it is coming along well Malcolm. Out of interest, how many bricks are you laying a day? Do you find there is lots of faffing around finding the right brick? I've just finished a 5-day bricklaying basics course very and now feel confident to tackle the garden wall projects that await in due course but I'm keen to see how others are getting on with their wall rebuilds. How do you normally point/finish the joints in your brickwork?

Keep up the good work!

Matt
I'm ramping up on speed, but my current best is 120 bricks in 8 hours. That's reduced most days with cutting bricks for piers, cleaning bricks with bits of lime still on the faces, preparing the old wall to join into etc. My average is about 80 bricks per day.

No messing around finding the right brick - I don't have enough of them so they are all going in. I am checking the height and length of the bricks used as headers as occasionally I find a very long or very short one which messes up the back of the wall.

I flush point, then leave the mortar to dry for a couple of hours, hit it with a masonry cleaning brush, then brush it lightly. That exposes the corners of the bricks and leaves a textured finish with some aggregate from the sharp sand exposed. Normally there is more aggregate but the sharp sand I have doesn't seem to have many whites or larger stones.

Image

stuart45
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Joined: Wed 14th Apr, 2010 8:34 pm
Location: Somerset, England

Re: Period Garden Wall Coping

Post by stuart45 » Wed 19th May, 2021 5:22 pm

I think the flush joint is ideal for those bricks. Looks really good, 120 a day is good going.

overlander matt
Posts: 195
Joined: Wed 2nd Jan, 2019 10:12 pm

Re: Period Garden Wall Coping

Post by overlander matt » Mon 24th May, 2021 11:03 pm

Thanks for posting a few more details Malcolm. Looking forward to seeing more progress when the sun finally comes out again. It's looking good so far!

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