Bureaucracy

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Bogart
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Joined: Tue 11th Oct, 2016 8:33 pm
Location: Norfolk

Bureaucracy

Post by Bogart » Sun 8th Nov, 2020 12:45 pm

My rant of the day is that it so annoys me when one has to jump through hoops to satisfy some pointless request. In my instance I want to replace 2 external doors, both seen better days, with modern equivalents in keeping with property. Our listed building officer is happy with design, construction and colour of doors. You would think that enough but no as is listed building one still has to do a formal application, at least it is free.
So I do as requested too easy to expect it to be smooth. My location plan is too large need reducing, Which doors am I replacing I would have though east and west aspects with accompanying photos enough but no will have to spoon feed them more details. Supply a 1:50 or 1:100 drawing of new doors, sorry no have sent photos and as dimensions are same as doors to be replaced let that be enough.
Finally they ask

Please amend the design, access and heritage statement - this should cover what you are doing and why and the history of the site/property (what makes it special).


Thought I had already told them what and why. Have given them the link to my listed building on English Heritage let them decide what is special , I never listed it.

Rant over.

Bogart
Posts: 334
Joined: Tue 11th Oct, 2016 8:33 pm
Location: Norfolk

Re: Bureaucracy

Post by Bogart » Tue 10th Nov, 2020 4:27 pm

Just an update. To say I am livid is an understatement. Now told after all the huffing and puffing about these doors, umpteen visits by the manufacturers they now say unsuitable and will not be passed.
This after being told by Listed Building officer by email oh yes they are fine!

Bloody idiot.

Flyfisher
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Location: Norfolk, UK

Re: Bureaucracy

Post by Flyfisher » Tue 10th Nov, 2020 6:51 pm

I’d be livid too. Who are ‘they’ who are saying things are not suitable?

In my experience, the historic buildings officer (aka conservation officer, CO) is the key person of authority. If the CO approves of something then who else is there who is qualified to disagree? In my case of a G2* property the answer to that question is Heritage England as they are also consulted on LBC applications and in 2 of my 4 applications over the years HE has not initially agreed 100% with the proposed works that had been discussed, reviewed, amended and finally agreed with my CO. In both cases, the CO was instrumental in arguing the case for the proposed works and in both cases successfully persuaded HE of the merits of the proposals, whereupon HE conceded and the applications were approved. Based on this experience, I’m amazed that something that was CO-approved, especially in writing, would be subsequently rejected.

Of course, my paltry four applications may not be representative of the country as a whole, but what is the point of a CO if not to be the designated expert in such matters?

88v8
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Re: Bureaucracy

Post by 88v8 » Sun 15th Nov, 2020 9:20 am

Bogart wrote:
Tue 10th Nov, 2020 4:27 pm
This after being told by Listed Building officer by email oh yes they are fine!
Lesson learned.... next time, immediately you get the OK in writing, do the job.
Then send the paperwork to 'tidy the files'.

If replacing the doors only for decrepitude, like=for-like, no permish needed anyway. As a caveat, any historic ironwork, glass etc must be reused of course, like-for-like does not mean pastiche :)

Ivor

MatthewC
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Re: Bureaucracy

Post by MatthewC » Tue 17th Nov, 2020 10:48 am

88v8 wrote:
Sun 15th Nov, 2020 9:20 am
If replacing the doors only for decrepitude, like=for-like, no permish needed anyway. As a caveat, any historic ironwork, glass etc must be reused of course, like-for-like does not mean pastiche :)
As I recall (not having made any LBC applications since 2011 :) ), you don't need permission at all for any "like for like" replacement. This was certainly the case with my district council and I'm pretty sure it was a nationwide thing.

I was pretty annoyed with my architect who included my new front door in an LBC application when I had taken great pains (and considerable expense) to have an identical replacement door made, on the basis of no permission needed. The CO then said (without ever seeing it) that I had to use the existing door furniture (like, a bent bedroom door knob?). At that stage it was too late as the door was already installed so I just ignored the CO, who never came here so never noticed.

I think for this sort of thing you have to try to understand the view of the CO and be reasonable, but NEVER ask a question to which you might not want to know the answer!

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