Wood graining and linseed paint.

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Flyfisher
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Re: Wood graining and linseed paint.

Post by Flyfisher » Wed 17th Mar, 2021 3:38 pm

Toby Newell wrote:
Wed 17th Mar, 2021 8:15 am
Now I have created a fairly factually accurate, semi interesting and first hand knowledgeable, if slightly hidden, Wikipedia entry we can get back to the main point.
With only a tiny bit more effort you could post all that on the Wikipedia entry, after all that's the way Wikipedia works - reviewed/corrected by people who really know what they are talking about, thus capturing their valuable knowledge for all mankind.

It would be a pity to limit all your insight and effort to a few dozen readers in this dusty old corner of the interweb when it could be added to Wikipedia for a potential audience of millions.

Toby Newell
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Re: Wood graining and linseed paint.

Post by Toby Newell » Thu 18th Mar, 2021 5:51 pm

Ha! The truth is out there Fly.

I disagree. I might upset the person who wrote the entry!

Also, I am a stickler. On my website I don't include citations but it's best practice on Wikipedia and I would want to do that. I think anyone who has written so many articles and read so many articles realises that correctly annotating with accurate references often takes much longer than writing the articles themselves. And if I were not to do that then who is to believe me over the guy who thinks beer and walnut shell crystals are a paint?

I could of course greatly improve many of the entries that are within my sphere of knowledge, many of the wood restoration ones are wrong, poor or incomplete.

But then take a look at SPAB. Their advice for wood finishing and floor repair is pretty incomplete or wrong. They are written by an architect and a surveyor who are obviously interested and have a little bit of knowledge but probably 0 to 10 hours experience. As a corporate sponsor I have told Lucy I could update them but how would that go down? Not really a way to win friends and influence people is it? No matter how magnanimous most humans baulk at being told they are wrong. Even if it from a well read individual with over 30,000 hours of experience in the field. That's just how it is! I give free advice weekly to people all over the UK and overseas via emails from my website.

Anyway. Wikipedia is fantastic, always my first port of call. I feel guilty I haven't donated yet.

Just (un) common sense (what a misnomer that is!) first thing I do after visiting Wikipedia is to cross reference.

If you don't know much about a subject it can take a few hours / days / weeks to check.

Only not with some entries! Obviously you were in a hurry Fly and didn't spot the ridiculous inconsistencies! Van dyke and beer is not a paint! :lol:

I think I have done enough for free advice with my 100,000 + words of articles on my website!

Flyfisher
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Re: Wood graining and linseed paint.

Post by Flyfisher » Fri 19th Mar, 2021 10:39 am

Toby Newell wrote:
Thu 18th Mar, 2021 5:51 pm
Obviously you were in a hurry Fly and didn't spot the ridiculous inconsistencies!
Not really, because they were sort of my point, which I think you may have missed.

I wasn't using that Wikipedia entry to question the art of graining, more to use it as an example of why it might be widely misunderstood, especially in the context of 'applied finishes' to beams, which had been recently discussed.

You are clearly knowledgeable about your subject and passionate about sharing that knowledge, so what better way than to use a widely-used global platform and in the process contribute to its improvement?

Editing Wikipedia isn't about the possible sensitivities of the contributors, it's about accuracy and your being 'a stickler' would be a huge advantage, references and all. You don't come across as someone who would be overly concerned about upsetting someone who is wrong.

Plus, from what you have already posted here, you clearly have all the necessary content to hand so the time and effort required would be minimal.

Toby Newell
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Re: Wood graining and linseed paint.

Post by Toby Newell » Sat 20th Mar, 2021 5:39 am

Again. Read. Slower.

I could improve dozens of pages. Firstly I have no desire to do so, I give hundreds of hours of detailed free advice every year and have spent thousands of hours on my website with dozens more pages of free advice.

It is the references that take weeks to track down.

Just because I know something is correct in my head is irrelevant. I would need to find corroborative evidence from external sources, which is hard as it is a very niche field and there is very little information out there.

If I do not do that then it's all waffle and just my opinion.

Flyfisher
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Re: Wood graining and linseed paint.

Post by Flyfisher » Sat 20th Mar, 2021 11:30 am

Toby Newell wrote:
Sat 20th Mar, 2021 5:39 am
If I do not do that then it's all waffle and just my opinion.
I wouldn't describe all your opinions posted here as waffle.

plasticpigeon
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Re: Wood graining and linseed paint.

Post by plasticpigeon » Sat 20th Mar, 2021 11:02 pm

Toby, can you not reference your own web page? Wikipedia is hardly "peer reviewed". I have seen newspaper articles as references on Wikipedia. As far as I can tell when I read a newspaper article about something I know about it is likely to be erroneous, so I have to assume the articles I know nothing about are also likely to be wrong. Practical skills are rarely written up in an academic way either so as you say, what references are available, apart from perhaps very old books on the subject. I know this sounds facetious but it isn't meant that way.

I was impressed that Nigel Watts had a go at simulating crotch mahogany on his doors. That is very brave. I have decided to go over my woodwork with a darker glaze but with no attempt to simulate any wood at all, just to give texture. The original woodwork was I think probably just dragged.

plasticpigeon
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Re: Wood graining and linseed paint.

Post by plasticpigeon » Sun 21st Mar, 2021 9:50 am


Toby Newell
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Re: Wood graining and linseed paint.

Post by Toby Newell » Sun 21st Mar, 2021 12:59 pm

Hope Nigel is ok, his last post was last March.

Yes, agree, his graining is what I would describe as 'naive' or basic but in the grand scheme of things probably looks the part and is very period. It probably looks very good.

The reason why talking to him might be helpful is his level of diligence, I am certain he spent weeks or months reading several books or articles before having a go himself. So he may be able to give pointers on what not to do for example. I am sure he practiced before doing his doors.

The excellent results Nigel gets are testament to the fact that careful research, patience and practice are really all you need to get acceptable results that often meet or exceed what you could expect from a full time experienced professional. Highly impressive.

And yes! I only watched the first 15 seconds of the first video. That's all you need. The guy is legit, that is how you do that. He's very good, just like Maybanks Snr who I worked alongside. Looks effortless, bastard. Takes a lot of artistic skill and practice to be able to wipe off the medualry rays to look realistic. Probably better for amateurs to physically copy a photograph or an actual piece of wood. Da Vinci could draw a horse from memory, but only after years of study of copying the actual thing his eye was looking at. That guy has been doing that for decades. That is exactly how it's done. Everso slightly more involved than rubbing brown wax on a surface!

He confirms my pigment choice :mrgreen: for the glaze. Raw umber, raw Sienna and Burnt Sienna.

Ground can be raw Sienna with some white and yellow.

LadyArowana
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Re: Wood graining and linseed paint.

Post by LadyArowana » Wed 24th Mar, 2021 10:11 am

I can confirm Nigel is fine, he’s been around “The Other Place” and is busy as ever with stunning house projects.

plasticpigeon
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Re: Wood graining and linseed paint.

Post by plasticpigeon » Wed 24th Mar, 2021 11:55 pm

LadyArowana wrote:
Wed 24th Mar, 2021 10:11 am
I can confirm Nigel is fine, he’s been around “The Other Place” and is busy as ever with stunning house projects.
Haha, yes causing trouble as usual!! He put some pictures of his grained doors up the other day, they were very impressive. He said he used a home made glaze made with linseed oil, turpentine, driers and earth pigments, or is that linseed oil, turpentine, driers, and earth pigments.

Cubist
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Re: Wood graining and linseed paint.

Post by Cubist » Thu 25th Mar, 2021 7:02 pm

Too long ago to think about now my father bought a house in which every internal door had been wood-grained. He never liked them as he felt the colour,as he put it, was too reminiscent of the contents of an infants nappy. As a consequence he took avery opportunity to re-paint or dispose of them until the house was almost free of the stuff. The last doors days were numbered and my father had a plan to evict it until by chance it was scraped while moving some furniture.

Puzzled, the old boy decided to strip a little more of the unpleasantly hued wood-grain and revealed finely figured pitch pine frame and panel door!

He, and I, have never understood why whoever was responsible decided to go to the trouble of wood-graining when a simple coat of varnish would have produced a much more attractive, and less stomach churning, finish. :roll:

Toby Newell
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Re: Wood graining and linseed paint.

Post by Toby Newell » Mon 29th Mar, 2021 2:07 am

That's good to hear. No idea what 'the other place' is. Another forum?

Pitch pine is an acquired taste, especially with warm and yellowing varnish.

If the scumble was made with earth pigments, many of these aren't very light fast. After a few years a lovely warm colour can turn a turgid green.

I suppose it has a lot to do with peer pressure and fashion.

Few people not living before or after the 1970's would agree that gloss white painted hardboard is more aesthetically pleasing than hand made panelled doors / stair banisters. But that was a thing. Along with large collars and orange kipper ties.

LadyArowana
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Re: Wood graining and linseed paint.

Post by LadyArowana » Mon 29th Mar, 2021 11:27 pm

Toby Newell wrote:
Mon 29th Mar, 2021 2:07 am
That's good to hear. No idea what 'the other place' is. Another forum?
The book of face :lol: Long time ago a few of us got distracted by going there, and so in a nod to the House of Lords/ Commons convention it got referred to as the other place!

Feltwell
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Re: Wood graining and linseed paint.

Post by Feltwell » Tue 30th Mar, 2021 5:38 pm

LadyArowana wrote:
Mon 29th Mar, 2021 11:27 pm
The book of face :lol:
Ahh, not found anyone from here on there. My kids inform me Facebook is for old people, which to them is anyone over about 25 :roll:

I only recently joined, or rather Mrs F set up an account for me as she was fed up with me nicking her account to talk to people. I was barred from her account - like a digital divorce! :lol:

plasticpigeon
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Re: Wood graining and linseed paint.

Post by plasticpigeon » Mon 17th May, 2021 1:16 pm

My first attempt at quarter sawn oak on a single door panel. This hasn't been overgained yet but looks sort of promising. I'm wondering if it is worth the effort though.
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