Bread oven door?

Zebra · Mar 16, 2022

Hello, it's been a while since I've posted on this forum, I hope you're all doing well. I'm trying to improve the house's heat retention, and an area of uninsulated heat loss is the bread oven. So I'm thinking of making a free-standing, non-permanent, nice-looking door for it, perhaps from oak. I don't think there ever was a door on it originally because I've found no fixings for hinges in the mortar. Has anyone seen such a thing? Were there ever such things as free-standing wooden bread oven doors? Picture attached of the opening as it is now. Thanks!

Feltwell · Mar 16, 2022

Zebra! Welcome back.

I've only ever seen cast iron doors - but - I see nothing wrong with your oak idea.

I made some cupboard doors to access uninsulated eaves spaces in our roof that are old pine on the outside, but then have foam insulation sheet in the middle, screwed onto a plywood back board - so a foam sandwich. They work a treat, with draught proofing round the edge they keep the cold at bay.

You could perhaps do a similar thing - doesn't matter that you can see if it's obviously modern when it's pulled out.

malcolm · Mar 16, 2022

Worth an eBay search for bread oven door or pizza oven door. There are a few interesting looking new cast iron ones that come with a surround and hinges for not too much money. A lot of them seem to attach with screws. Cast iron feels more authentic than wood as there would have once have been an open fire in there.

The actual insulation could be hidden away behind the door. With a little cunning it might be removable for when you want to bake bread.

danjennings1958 · Mar 16, 2022

these an architectural salvage yard called abbotsbridge near sudbury in suffolk - i spotted a couple of really nice cast iron doors and frames in there last week that might fit,worth a call.

LadyArowana · Mar 16, 2022

Hello there stripy friend! Not much help on the door issue, other than to second the eBay recommendation.

Zebra · Mar 16, 2022

Feltwell, I like the foam sandwich idea, I think I did something similar on one of the loft hatches.
Hiya malcolm, hope things are going well with you.. is that right that there would once have been an open fire in there? Cos there's no marks at all on the stone base, no discolouring in the middle, no soot, no blackening of the mortar or brick, and no outlet for any smoke. There's no opening beneath, either, for a fire on a lower level. So I'm not even sure that it was used for bread. I suppose they might have put a tray of hot embers in there with the bread to raise? So as to the idea of making my own bread in there, I'm not too sure about that

......although my baking has improved during the lockdown, with no pointing, rendering, carpentry or plumbing to do.
Hello LadyA, I hope the servants are all minding their manners.

Feltwell · Mar 16, 2022

Zebra said:
So I'm not even sure that it was used for bread.

Completely amateur musing - salt storage perhaps? I have heard somewhere of an opening near an inglenook fireplace that, due to being kept dry by the fire, was used for salt storage back when it was a valuable commodity.

Zebra · Mar 17, 2022

Feltwell said:
Completely amateur musing - salt storage perhaps?

I have heard this somewhere too and I think it's a very viable theory, and would also explain why there's no evidence of ever having been a door on it. Seems a lot of trouble to go to for storing salt but who knows. I have heard that at one point my house was used as a farriers, I wonder if there are materials for that purpose which also need to be kept dry.

tobydog · Mar 17, 2022

This is our inglenook with salt hole (at least that's what we were told the hole was for).

noj · Mar 17, 2022

We've got an original oak door on our bread oven. No hinges, it's thick enough to stand on its own and has a couple of wooden handles.

Will try and post a pic later.

It was limewashed at some point, painted at another.

noj · Mar 18, 2022

Some pics

Zebra · Mar 23, 2022

Awesome noj and tobydog, that's so helpful. Yours is original from what era, noj? That's so helpful to see the style of it, I think that's just what I'll do (although foam backed as per feltwell's suggestion). That bread oven is different from mine in that yours has the second opening beneath. But it's bigger than your salt hole, tobydog, so really good to know that that's a thing, but I think its use remains a mystery!

noj · Mar 24, 2022

It's hard to date, it's tagged on to a large inglenook but the brickwork isn't tied together so it's possibly an addition? It does have a small flue above the dome of the oven that vents into the side of the main chimney and the bricks are similar (slightly hard to tell since a PO power sanded the limewash off them!).

There must be some void in there, the inside of the dome is created without any mortar and I assume there should be some way for fumes to get to the flue? The dome on the outside is mortared, unrendered, but limewashed and emulsioned brick which is in a lean-to utility room. Might be time to get the endoscope out...

The actual date must be in the early 1700's, it's in the 'new' cottage that's all a bit more square and has plaster rather than daub. The second inglenook at the other end of the room is a lot more rustic.

JanieB · Apr 27, 2022

There was a bread oven (actually 3 of them, all different) in the farmhouse I moved into 30 odd years ago. The doors weren’t on hinges. Two of the doors were wood and one was metal. They all had handles and as far as I can gather were just lodged into the front of the oven by force. Someone local told me they used to put wet clay round the edges to keep the heat in. It was an area the romans mined for clay for their tiles.

Gothichome · Apr 28, 2022

Janie and all, I believe another fix or sealing the bred oven door was left over bread dough, Stuffed around the cracks, when the filler was hard you knew the bred was done. I think it as from one of Ruth Goodmans farm series that i learnt that.
Ron

JanieB · Apr 29, 2022

Elizabeth David wrote a very interesting book on yeast cookery that is more of a history of bread and bread ovens.

Zebra · May 13, 2022

Apologies for my absence from this thread, and not seeing all the replies - I don't frequent these parts like I used to.....

JanieB, that's so interesting that you had freestanding wooden ones too.

In terms of the construction of this opening, and whether it had any flue or not, i was very interested, noj, in your detailed description of yours. I had the whole area apart to repoint and repair, and so I know for sure there's no flue. The dome is beneath a small pitched roof which leans onto the back of the chimney, and it's true it's not mortared. I rendered the outside of the dome with some soft lime plaster just to prevent draughts, and I suppose it's conceivable any smoke from the inside was just intended to escape through the gappy brickwork, but I find it unlikely to have been effective. Besides, there's no soot marks on the inside of the opening, which is untouched. I wonder, would bakers have heated up an object - a stone, a jug of water - and put this inside the opening with the bread rather than have any smoke-producing objects in there? Otherwise, it perhaps was a large salt store.

Zebra · Oct 22, 2022

Been looking for a decent sized lump of oak to make this bread oven door with, and this morning I found it, a chunky "mock-medieval" (of the style that was fashionable 25 years ago or so) side table at the recycling centre for £4! At least, I think it's oak....

Feltwell · Oct 22, 2022

Hey, if it looks nice, who cares what the timber is? Post a picture though and you'll get an answer (Toby!

)

£4 - bargain. I picked up a Victorian ledged & braced outbuilding door the other day - a big'un, 8' tall and 4' across - for nothing! Came off Freecycle. Absolutely no rot and very heavy. I've had to cut it down in width but it's now a gate to the passageway down the side of my garage, now it's painted up it looks like it's been there for 100 years already, I was "well chuffed".

Cubist · Oct 22, 2022

Note to self - must check out these Freecycle places.

A piece of misshapen 2 inch oak roughly 60x12 inches needed/wanted to create a shelf to support a very small Belfast (lab) sink set me back £60 a few years back. It don't pay to shop with the First Lady.

Bread oven door?

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