Insurance for listed cottage

[Calymene]

Hi all, am in the process of buying a listed, three bedroom cottage the main parts of which date back to the thirteen hundreds. it's half timbered and stone rubble construction along with a large timber framed barn. I'm hoping you may be able to point me in the right direction of an insurer that will cover such a property at a price that I can actually afford without a second mortgage.

This will be the first of numerous posts I fear as I'm new to a property of this age and want to do right by it as the previous owner seems to have been.

Many thanks in anticipation.

Cal

 

[Cubist]

Hi There Cal and Welcome,
There was a recent enquiry here from someone in the same shoes as yourself which gathered some suggestions from a few of us. You can check those out in the thread 'Insurance brokers' using that term in the Search function above.

If this is your first venture into the world of Period Properties and particularly those with Listed status I'm afraid you may have a steep learning curve in front of you and not least those associated with Insurance - its always a controversial topic. You don't say what listing classification has been applied to the property concerned and this will be a major concern.
Cheers for now,
Cubist

 

[Calymene]

Hi Cubist,

Thank you for your reply, and apologies for not getting back sooner. I'll have a look at the thread you suggest. The cottage is three bedroomed grade 2 listed and the fifty foot barn is also a grade 2 .

Cal

 

[tobydog]

If you're detached and not thatched then you shouldn't find it too difficult to get a reasonable quote. It also depends, however, what you think is a reasonable quote. Try Lloyd & Whyte. We find them very helpful and professional. We are 1640's, Grade II, and detached but also timber framed and thatched with a wood burner which does become challenging each renewal.

 

[Calymene]

If you're detached and not thatched then you shouldn't find it too difficult to get a reasonable quote. It also depends, however, what you think is a reasonable quote. Try Lloyd & Whyte. We find them very helpful and professional. We are 1640's, Grade II, and detached but also timber framed and thatched with a wood burner which does become challenging each renewal.

Thank you tobydog, I had seen Lloyd & Whyte mentioned a few times in the search recommended above and will try them once I am sure contracts will be exchanged. The cottage is detatched and has a tiled roof now but have a feeling it was possibly thatch in the distant past. The barn roof is corregated iron but under that there are traces of thatch in the rafters. I know it will be much more expensive than the three bed semi we are in now and expect the worst but think it will be worth it and a privilege to be able to live in a property like this that appears to have survived with little modern interferance.

Cal

 

[Richeee]

I have just used compare the meerkat and Admiral. Grade 2 listed. In zone 3 flood risk area. Seemed to work fine. Better than 2 independent brokers. Who were double the price.

 

[Cubist]

The barn roof is corregated iron but under that there are traces of thatch in the rafters.

Errr.... best you check the listing for the barn and maybe consider what the response to any proposals you may be considering for its renovation. Now, pre-contract, could be a good time to discover and confirm that the material in its roof are remnants of birds nests rather than old thatch - a sticky CO may insist you re-establish the thatch during any future planned works.

 

[stuart45]

Although I always look for the cheapest quote with insurance, it might be a waste of money if they won't pay out on a claim. I suppose the majority of people don't make a lot of claims. I remember a couple of knocker boys in a Brighton pub many years telling me that they always used the most expensive companies as they always paid out on their fraudulent claims, whereas the cheaper ones always seemed to find the small print to get out of paying.
I've only made one claim when we first moved here. I was with the NFU at the time and must admit that they were really good. An outhouse got broken into and power tools taken. I had no receipts for any of them, but they paid out in full without any problem and the premium was the same the next year. Unfortunately in recent years I've found them a bit too pricey, but with the cheaper ones you never know if it's money down the drain until you need it. I suppose any insurance gives you peace of mind, even if they've got no intention of paying out.

 

[tobydog]

Yes, a cheap quote is a big draw but, like all things in life, is it too good to be true? What am I missing or not seeing, particularly in terms of coverage and exclusions? We were with NFU for many years but they became way too expensive which in part was driven by their appetite to underwrite old, listed, and often thatched properties. With the huge popularity of the wood burner, NFU literally got their fingers burnt. I did my best to find comparable coverage at a more competitive price but, as Stuart alluded to, what price do you put on quality of service? Particularly important when it comes to trying to rebuild complicated listed homes.

 

[Cubist]

Yes, a cheap quote is a big draw but, like all things in life, is it too good to be true? What am I missing or not seeing, particularly in terms of coverage and exclusions? We were with NFU for many years but they became way too expensive which in part was driven by their appetite to underwrite old, listed, and often thatched properties. With the huge popularity of the wood burner, NFU literally got their fingers burnt. I did my best to find comparable coverage at a more competitive price but, as Stuart alluded to, what price do you put on quality of service? Particularly important when it comes to trying to rebuild complicated listed homes.

And sadly that is exactly why many old listed buildings lie fallow and rot to destruction after an unhappy event. The payout to the unhappy owner was far too little to cover the re-build and prospective buyers too unwilling to take on the potential costs induced by some Tartar of a CO!

 

[Flyfisher]

. . . . when it comes to trying to rebuild complicated listed homes.

I recall once being told, possibly by someone here, that the worst case scenario for a listed property is for it to half burn down, because it's then likely that the powers that be would insist on like-for-like rebuilding, which would likely be at extortionate cost. Whereas, if it were to completely burn down, all historic fabric and interest would have been sadly lost and there would be little point in building a modern replica, which would open the door to an unlisted new-build on the same site, most likely at a lower cost than the insured value of the original building.

Should the worst ever happen, it might be worth mulling this over while hovering over the '9' button on the telephone.

 

[a twig]

Hence why a lot of listed buildings develop a mysterious ability to “go on fire” shortly after being acquired by property developers

 

[Calymene]

I have just used compare the meerkat and Admiral. Grade 2 listed. In zone 3 flood risk area. Seemed to work fine. Better than 2 independent brokers. Who were double the price.

Thank you Richeee, will try them before accepting a quote.

 

[Calymene]

Errr.... best you check the listing for the barn and maybe consider what the response to any proposals you may be considering for its renovation. Now, pre-contract, could be a good time to discover and confirm that the material in its roof are remnants of birds nests rather than old thatch - a sticky CO may insist you re-establish the thatch during any future planned works.

Hi Cubist, the listing for the barn states corregated iron over old thatch, the iron was apparently applied after the last war.

 

[Calymene]

Although I always look for the cheapest quote with insurance, it might be a waste of money if they won't pay out on a claim. I suppose the majority of people don't make a lot of claims. I remember a couple of knocker boys in a Brighton pub many years telling me that they always used the most expensive companies as they always paid out on their fraudulent claims, whereas the cheaper ones always seemed to find the small print to get out of paying.
I've only made one claim when we first moved here. I was with the NFU at the time and must admit that they were really good. An outhouse got broken into and power tools taken. I had no receipts for any of them, but they paid out in full without any problem and the premium was the same the next year. Unfortunately in recent years I've found them a bit too pricey, but with the cheaper ones you never know if it's money down the drain until you need it. I suppose any insurance gives you peace of mind, even if they've got no intention of paying out.

Hello Stuart45,

Thank you for you reply and wisdom, I seldom go with the cheapest quote and drive many of the insurance drones mad by insisting I see all the small print before signing on the dotted line.

 

[Calymene]

Yes, a cheap quote is a big draw but, like all things in life, is it too good to be true? What am I missing or not seeing, particularly in terms of coverage and exclusions? We were with NFU for many years but they became way too expensive which in part was driven by their appetite to underwrite old, listed, and often thatched properties. With the huge popularity of the wood burner, NFU literally got their fingers burnt. I did my best to find comparable coverage at a more competitive price but, as Stuart alluded to, what price do you put on quality of service? Particularly important when it comes to trying to rebuild complicated listed homes.

Thanks tobydog, I always try to go with quality , within reason, rather than the cheapest option.

 

[Calymene]

I recall once being told, possibly by someone here, that the worst case scenario for a listed property is for it to half burn down, because it's then likely that the powers that be would insist on like-for-like rebuilding, which would likely be at extortionate cost. Whereas, if it were to completely burn down, all historic fabric and interest would have been sadly lost and there would be little point in building a modern replica, which would open the door to an unlisted new-build on the same site, most likely at a lower cost than the insured value of the original building.

Should the worst ever happen, it might be worth mulling this over while hovering over the '9' button on the telephone.

Hi Flyfisher, this house is a keeper for me, it's never had modern kitchens or those horrible little lights in the ceiling, etc, I plan to keep it as simple and as original as possible providing its comfortable for my life style, which is simple and not at all high tech!

 

[Calymene]

Hence why a lot of listed buildings develop a mysterious ability to “go on fire” shortly after being acquired by property developers

One of the main reasons for trying to buy this cottage is to save it from being modernised in an inappropriate way, I'm going to be asking a lot of questions and for recommendations to keep it as original as I can

 

[Cubist]

Hi Cubist, the listing for the barn states corregated iron over old thatch, the iron was apparently applied after the last war.

That could be an Ouch. Your local CO could take a view that any future work on the barn must include either a full thatch OR a full tin roof. Theres nothing stopping you speaking to the CO now well before the sale - it may be well worth your while doing so. During our purchase of this place we got the CO to visit the place with us - he was a trifle grumpy but at least he didn't reveal anything of any concern.

Are you sure that the house and barn are separately listed? I ask because if they are that could lead to some issues regarding the definition of the extent of the 'curtilage' for each and some overlap may be implied. Its final extent can sometimes be open to interpretation and be a minefield when planning applications are being considered.

 

[Calymene]

That could be an Ouch. Your local CO could take a view that any future work on the barn must include either a full thatch OR a full tin roof. Theres nothing stopping you speaking to the CO now well before the sale - it may be well worth your while doing so. During our purchase of this place we got the CO to visit the place with us - he was a trifle grumpy but at least he didn't reveal anything of any concern.

Are you sure that the house and barn are separately listed? I ask because if they are that could lead to some issues regarding the definition of the extent of the 'curtilage' for each and some overlap may be implied. Its final extent can sometimes be open to interpretation and be a minefield when planning applications are being considered.

Hi Cubist,

They have seperate listings but the curtilage covers the 'gardens' front and rear for the house and the old farmyard area that is between the house and the listed barn, there is a large ancient orchard/paddock to one side that is not listed or part of the curtilage. I'm not planning on making any extensions, alteraqtions to the cottage or the barn, they are just as I wantn to keep them, a few windows that have been in place since before the listing may have to be replaced if possible as they look totally out or place and are single pane glass that has no opening part. I will hopefully be able to replace them with casements made from oak and fitted correctly. The only buildings I am planning on are a couple of greenhouses and maybe another garage in the orchard area that is not listed. There is already a good stone walled workshop again with a tin roof attached to the end of the barn.

The barn roof is totally covered in tin, no thatch is visible unless you look from inside and there is little evidence of thatch left in there to be honest. The cross pieces between the main joists in the barn appear to be natural branches with their natural shapes, there appears to be no planed or sawn cross members under the tin roof. I'd like to keep it like that if possible. It's dry inside and usable but will need sympathetic attention to ensure its long term survival. I have no plans to convert it into a living space and would prefer to keep it mostly as a barn to keep my old tractor and car in, store hay etc. There is a second story area that again is dry with massive oak , I think , wide floorboards, that area may become an art studio if I can do it without altering anything, windows are already present in one side of the barn and appear to have been there since antiquity, there are several very large doors too, some at ground level on the farmyard side, some on the other side that are four or five feet above ground level and almost as large.

There is one thing that does worry me a little, the fencing around the property is sheep netting and has largely collapsed, the sheep are keeping the weeds and grass down but making quite a mess whilst converting the herbage into fertiliser. The whole property, some 1.2 plus acres is built on a raised area, much like the house platforms found in DMV's around the country, on the outside of this is a lowish dry stone wall, quite well preserved in some parts but becoming eroded in others by the livestock, I know I'll need to find and chat with the farmer/landowner but would like to protect this low wall as I think its part of the listed curtilage.