Removing wooden panelling and adding radiators without Listed Building Consent under emergency works?

[montyjohn]

I submitted an LBC pre-app about 5 weeks ago 9so deadline for a response was a week ago). In it, I asked if wooden panelling from one room could be removed under emergency works. It's likely a 1950's retro-fit, it's rotten and is covering up some very wet walls that I need to dry out.

My surveyor agreed it is probably a late addition and likely to cover up problems rather than dealing with them.

I've held off starting this work as I want the nod from the conservation officer, but it's been five weeks now.
I've also chased for a response but received nothing.

There is no phone number, just an email address.

Realistically, how long do I wait before just cracking on? The building is wet and needs to dry.

On a similar line, I also need to sort out a heating system downstairs. All included in the pre-app. Mainly fitting radiators to an existing pipe network. Again, I've not started doing this work as I want to know if it needs consent or not. But we're in the middle of winter now and have no heating downstairs so it's a job fairly high on my list.

Emergency works can cover works related to urgent health, safety, or preservation issues. I've got young kids in a house without heating downstairs. Maybe this could apply? A genuinely believe the trapped damp is rotting my joists so keen to sort the panelling and get that room heated asap. I could for example go for surface mounted pipes hidden behind a vertical radiator meaning the only damage to the property would be two holes in the ceiling (many of which need repairing anyway).

Historic England seem pretty relaxed about such works: https://historicengland.org.uk/advice/your-home/improvement/installing-services/

"You can usually change and upgrade most building services without affecting what's unique about the building although if in doubt specialist advice should be sought. If that's the case, there's no need to get listed building consent. Listed building or conservation area status should help to ensure that proposed changes are thought through carefully, rather than preventing change."

I'm all in favour of the LBC process, but they do need to speak to me rather than just leaving me hanging.

 

[Mrs McG]

Pre-app advice is non-binding i.e. it is the CO’s opinion on whether an application would be successful. Although a council may give an estimate of timescales I’m not aware that it’s binding on them and lots of factors may make a council late in responding to pre-app requests (including prioritising formal applications) but I don’t believe this gives you the right to forge ahead.

 

[Cubist]

What, if anything, do you intend to replace the wooden panelling with once the walls have dried out to your satisfaction?

Does the extant CH pipe network extend into the rooms in which you want to install the radiators? If not would the new pipe runs needed be installed beneath the floors, be surface mounted or hidden with box panels?

What is the root cause of the wet walls?

If I remember correctly your house is G2. What features, if any, of the buildings interior are included in the listing details?

 

[montyjohn]

What, if anything, do you intend to replace the wooden panelling with once the walls have dried out to your satisfaction?

We've not decided yet. Either just lime plaster, or maybe the dado rails that give the appearance of panelling. We gave options to the CO in the pre-app but are pretty flexible on what to reinstate it with. But that's a problem for a later date.

Does the extant CH pipe network extend into the rooms in which you want to install the radiators? If not would the new pipe runs needed be installed beneath the floors, be surface mounted or hidden with box panels?

It does. Fortunately the entire of upstairs has 22mm primaries that gives full coverage downstairs. We would need to lift floorboards where we tee off the primaries, but we only need vertical secondaries from the ceiling down to the radiators on the 1st floor. But to be honest, it's kind of irrelevant as the house needs a full re-wire anyway. The insulation is flaking of the wires so it's a real hazard so many boards need to come up. And whoever installed the radiators took a circular saw to the floorbaords. Makes them easy for me to lift as a silver lining, but frustrating that it was done so carelessly. We've also got some flexing of the floors where joists have failed in a few rooms, so we're looking at significant repairs meaning lots of disruption anyway, so any boards I need to lift, I'd just not nail them back until all works are done.
I'll be lifting board over Christmas to work out which joists have failed, again, I just wont be putting these back down securely just yet.

What is the root cause of the wet walls?

It was rented out since the 1940's where the tenants were responsible for maintenance. This means they did zero maintenance. Gutters overflowing and running down t he walls for years and a lack of a heating system means the walls have been saturated. They are drying out, at least they were, but likely slowed right down now it's cold out. Pretty sure we've dealt with the main root causes, but until we've heated and dried the place out, it's hard to be certain.

What features, if any, of the buildings interior are included in the listing details?

None. Until the pre-app there's no record of any applications for this house so the Council I don't think knew what the inside included.

Something to bare in mind is this house has very much been neglected for decades and needs everything doing, so when the LBC goes in, it will be substantial the amount of items that need to be listed (unless the CO tells me certain items don't need LBC).

A lot of it will be like for like repairs which will be disruptive in themselves and they don't need LBC (these include replastering, new ceiling etc, where they are falling off, much of it can be saved), so I'm hoping the CO will have a relaxed response and only ask for LBC for big ticket items and minor things like adding radiators will be seen as irrelevant in the grand scheme of things, but just need to know where they stand.

 

[montyjohn]

Pre-app advice is non-binding i.e. it is the CO’s opinion on whether an application would be successful. Although a council may give an estimate of timescales I’m not aware that it’s binding on them and lots of factors may make a council late in responding to pre-app requests (including prioritising formal applications) but I don’t believe this gives you the right to forge ahead.

What I mainly want from the pre-app is to know what needs LBC, what doesn't and what can be treated as emergency works.

There is a strong case that removing the panelling is emergency works as it has to go anyway and it's trapping water behind it in a wet building. It's just doesn't need to be done tomorrow type emergency, but it is this side of Christmas really, otherwise damage will continue to accumulate.

 

[Itchinfilth]

How old is the house and are you sure it's 50s panelling?
Could you remove the panelling safely and save for a later date if told to reinstate?

 

[montyjohn]

How old is the house and are you sure it's 50s panelling?
Could you remove the panelling safely and save for a later date if told to reinstate?

House is Georgian.

It feels like it's from that era. It's a fake wood patten with embossed grain on it or similar. When I pull away rotten bits it's some sort wood veneer (very thin veneer, so could be a plastic pattern on older wood). But there's no separating them unless the wood is falling apart. So maybe a plastic paint that's pretty thick and somebody for whatever reason tried to draw grain on it?

Two walls are so rotten (near the skirting), so even if it needs reinstating with real wood (assuming the original boards are turn of the century), it would need replacing anyway. Figured the original boards, if they are old, can't be older than Edwardian.

So I've either got Edwardian boards that somebody has ruined with plastic paint. Or newer cheap engineered boards made to look like real wood. Behind the veneer is definitely pine.

 

[Stevers]

If it's scumble graining and I think it is, then it was very nicely done - making the most of whatever was under it!

 

[montyjohn]

If it's scumble graining and I think it is, then it was very nicely done - making the most of whatever was under it!

Thanks, you've given me a term to look up.

 

[Cubist]

Most of what you want/need to do in the short term certainly falls into the 'essential repairs' category. The wainscotting is certainly faux oak created using the stumble technique - a heavy coat of varnish into which a grain like pattern is applied using various comb like tools, brushes and fabric pads (the examples you have there were very well executed by the way) - all of which could easily be reproduced with new materials later. In your shoes I believe you could strip it all out, while perhaps saving any pieces that may be in good condition, to allow the plaster beneath to dry out and be repaired. Installing the radiators should also be be considered an essential repair and these too - given the extent of the other works you anticipate - could be installed on what you could genuinely claim to be a purely temporary basis to get some heat into those rooms,

The sources of the wet walls, insofar that the root of these seem to be external issues should most definitely fall in the same essential repair category.

In your shoes I would simply get on with it and drop the BC team an email to advice you're doing so - that alone may just get them off their backsides.