Additional beams in Grade 2 Listed

[fallschirmjager]

Is it possible to put up additional oak ceiling beams in a grade 2 listed house? They are obviously not a permanent fixture as they can be taken down at a later date but they will obviously affect the character of the interior. There are a few beams, but none in the kitchen or bedrooms. Would you require consent from a planning officer and if so would he likely turn it down?

Thanks.

 

[MatthewC]

Why do you want to install more beams? You say they could be removed and so it sounds that they would be non-structural and simply for decoration. Therefore, I would guess, a CO would not allow it.

 

[fallschirmjager]

Yes they would purely be for a decorative purpose. I guess it's a no-no then Matthew. Thanks for the reply.

 

[CliffordPope]

but they will obviously affect the character of the interior.

You mean make it look like a Wetherspoons pub, The Jolly Harvester ?

 

[fallschirmjager]

Not at all. The beams in the image below are not even wood. They are moulded from plaster and I personally think they add much to what would otherwise be a much more boring kitchen.

 

[CHall]

Around 4 years ago I was a tenant in a grade 2 listed cottage where they had done something like this in the living room. Looked ok, I thought. I assume it was done when the cottage was refurbished a few years before. The owner may well have got the consent needed but I can't confirm.

 

[noj]

I guess if they are removable and don't involve destruction of historical structure then arguably they're little different to applying a textured ceiling paper?

Not sure I'd do it, but it's possibly just a subjective decorative decision and not anything requiring LBC...

 

[Gareth Hughes]

To be the awkward one...

I don't think this is as minor as a change of wallpaper. It may be that some rooms have never had exposed beams (may even be in parts of the building that post-date internally exposed timber framed construction) and the change to make something look "old" when it isn't is one that would certainly require LBC. Whether consent would be forthcoming, if I were the CO in this case, would depend largely on the existing character of the rooms and whether beaming them would sit appropriately with that.

It is ironic that we have seemd to have had far more posts on the forum about how to reduce the visual impact of (genuinely old) beams than about increasing it.

 

[fallschirmjager]

Hi Gareth. Every room in the property (6 bedroom) bar the sitting room and kitchen has ceiling beams with many rooms also incorporating walls beams. I had a historic surveyor conduct the survey and he stated the sitting room forms part of the oldest part of the house (mid 17th Century). He said either the ceiling beams have been covered and I could check by lifting the floorboards in the room above or they have been removed completely. I just think it would be a shame that I'm surrounded by lovely beams in my house but would predominately spend most of my time in the room that doesn't have any.

On another note, I viewed around seven historic properties to buy and all of them (including the one I'm purchasing) have either cement rendered exteriors, lime render with multiple coats of non-breathable masonary paint or brickwork with cement mortar. Most had non-breathable interior paint in every room. Nearly all had damp problems. I have come to the conclusion that most people who live in old houses haven't really a clue how to look after them or just aren't interested. As a CO do you find this is generally the case?

 

[CliffordPope]

I guess if they are removable and don't involve destruction of historical structure

Apart from the row of chiselled notches in the presumably genuine main beam?

 

[fallschirmjager]

What main beam is this you speak of? Myself and the surveyor must have missed that one.

 

[Penners]

fallschirmjager, if it's a Grade 2 listed building have you considered that there may be exactly the beams that you're wishing for lurking above the ceiling? If so, and if the ceiling is a modern plasterboard job, you might get a more sympathetic ear from the CO if you asked for permission to expose the original beams.

But note that I did say 'if'....

 

[malcolm]

either cement rendered exteriors, lime render with multiple coats of non-breathable masonary paint or brickwork with cement mortar. Most had non-breathable interior paint in every room. Nearly all had damp problems.

It does seem very common. It is possible to identify the really old buildings in my village by mould showing the layout of ancient timber frames that are soaking wet (and therefore colder than the infill) hidden behind the recent modern finishes.

Can't help a lot with the ceiling beam question. My house had timbers applied in the late 1970s both to the ceilings and walls. I find it just another fun part of the building's history especially when combined with exterior work in the 1920s it resulted in walls with mock Tudor inside and out with real Tudor hidden in the middle. There is a fair chance I'll remove the applied timber on the walls and expect to be able to patch up the plaster.

I guess the reversibality of modifications will be important. If the new beams will only result in plaster damage to modern plaster then I wouldn't see them as a concern. Possibly less of a concern than exposing and the inevitable messing around with any original beams.

 

[CliffordPope]

What main beam is this you speak of? Myself and the surveyor must have missed that one.

I was refering to the photograph of the similar example. If in fact yours has no beams at all at present in that room then you are contemplating an entire fake set?

But as has been suggested, the must be something hidden to hold up the ceiling, so worth investigating first.

 

[fallschirmjager]

Thanks for the replies. The surveyor did say the original beams may be covered over and I could check this by lifting up the floorboards in the room above. Hopefully they are still present. Both rooms either side of the sitting room have their main beams and joists present. Obviously I cannot check anything until I am handed the keys on completion of the sale.

 

[Gareth Hughes]

On another note, I viewed around seven historic properties to buy and all of them (including the one I'm purchasing) have either cement rendered exteriors, lime render with multiple coats of non-breathable masonary paint or brickwork with cement mortar. Most had non-breathable interior paint in every room. Nearly all had damp problems. I have come to the conclusion that most people who live in old houses haven't really a clue how to look after them or just aren't interested. As a CO do you find this is generally the case?

It varies, but if I could have certain TV presenters and glossy magazine editors beaten to death with old beams and buried in a lime pit, I might not think too long before authorising it.
The same goes for DIY store charlatans.

 

[MatthewC]

...if I could have certain TV presenters and glossy magazine editors beaten to death with old beams and buried in a lime pit, I might not think too long before authorising it.
The same goes for DIY store charlatans.

Where IS that "Like" button? 8)

 

[Penners]

Here's one specially for PPUK DIYers.

 

[MatthewC]

Thanks Penners - we have missed input like this!