Advice needed – shower leak, repairs, and ventilation in Victorian house

[Aurelio]

Looking for some advice following a recent shower leak in our Victorian house. We discovered water stains on the ceiling below, and a plumber has since identified and stopped the leak. A section of the shower wall was removed, revealing laths behind the plasterboard, and further investigation exposed the pipework and the party wall.

You can see from the photos that the previous owners appear to have built the shower out slightly from the party wall. The plumber has suggested removing this to tile right up against the wall to create more space. I explained that I think this was originally done to allow for ventilation and to avoid working directly off the party wall, so I’m unsure whether removing it is a good idea.

He’s also proposing to re-board the area using moisture-resistant plasterboard, though I’ve had others recommend cement board instead. I’m not sure whether to push back on this or go with his suggestion.

In an ideal world, I’d strip the tiles and limewash the walls to allow everything to breathe, but with two small children, we just need a functional shower again as the leak has caused quite a bit of stress.

Here’s the quote I’ve received for the proposed works:

Shower works

• Remove current shower area
• Remove all tiles in the shower area as required
• Remove studwork in the shower area
• Re-batten and board where required
• Adapt waste where required for the new tray (to be installed on leg kit)
• Run new pipework up to the shower area and clip pipework
• Re-board areas in moisture plasterboard
• Tile the shower area and around the window
• Grout tiled works
• Install new shower valve and screen
• Silicone all worked areas

I’m also looking to improve ventilation, we have an extractor fan, but the bathroom window is fixed shut, which hasn’t helped with moisture.

Lastly, regarding the water stains on the ceiling below (lining paper over what I assume is lath and plaster), my plan was to let it dry out fully and then cover the stain. However, some have said this might not be the best approach.

Any thoughts on:

• Whether the quote seems complete and appropriate
• Moisture board vs. cement board for an old house
• Whether to keep or remove the built-out section against the party wall
• The best way to deal with the ceiling stains
• Improving ventilation when the window can’t open

Would really appreciate any advice from others who’ve tackled similar issues in older houses

 

[Cubist]

A question first; which wall in the shower do the water stains in the room below correspond to. In other words, are the stains directly below the window or, as one might surmise, directly below the showers water service pipes?

 

[Aurelio]

The patches are directly below the shower, the pipes have been capped and I have not noticed any additional water marks since.

 

[Stevers]

The advantage of the cavity is that there is no need to chase into the party wall to bury pipes that might later leak. Would you be happy for your neighbours to do that for 'your' party wall?

 

[Cubist]

The reason I asked was to determine whether the water you were seeing was caused by a leaking service pipe or perhaps due water escaping past the seal of the shower tray. From the little that can be seen either of these could be the root cause but the remedy for each is very different. That aside though it looks like the shower service pipes were boxed in against a previously tiled wall and plastic 'push fit' piping and fittings used to connect the old - presumably copper pipe - services to the shower head and control system. Given that there were, and are, no services embedded in the external wall beneath the window I am a trifle surprised the plumber(?) has removed those particular tiles and opened up the lath and plaster wall behind it. Do you know why this was done?

In terms of remedial work I would have said that this was overkill and potentially much more extensive and expensive than I would have considered necessary to effect the needed repairs. Much of this is concerned with ripping out all of what was previously done only to then do pretty much the same work and largely using the same methods and products in the shape of a new tray, screen and shower controls, etc. Yes, moisture resistant plasterboard would be beneficial but I would take a lot of convincing to agree this was a critical omission in the original work. Is your plumber proposing to re-use the extant kit or and, as @Stevers has said it is far from reasonable to cut into a party wall to then embed new water services there.

Frankly, given your desire to simply get the shower back into service asap then you should consider a more minimal approach focused on ensuring the services are and will remain free from leaks AND ensuring that there is effective access for future maintenance whilst re-establishing the tiled walls and water tight fit of the shower tray. The biggest problem I would have foreseen would have been finding suitable replacement tiles for those that have been broken out.

 

[fernicarry]

no need to chase into the party wall to bury pipes that might later leak

Agree that's the reason its been stepped out and possibly also to give a straight and flat surface for tiling. If you go for a concealed shower mixer they do require quite a bit of depth behind the wall although it looks like what you formerly had was a surface mounted one.

Use cement board or tile backer board not green plasterboard. The green stuff is a bit more moisture resistant but I wouldn't trust it inside a shower cubicle.

Where does your current extractor fan go? Does it vent out through the eaves or similar? Most inline extractors don't really move enough air to have much effect and if its connected with flexible corrugated ducting taking a tortuous route then that slows the flow even more. Also remember that you need to allow the same amount of air back in that you take out so you need a decent gap under the door or similar. We have a big fan unit in the loft connected by 5" rigid ducting and venting through the roof. It runs on a slow trickle all the time and goes into boost when the shower is running. The room dries up very quickly after a shower.

 

[Aurelio]

The advantage of the cavity is that there is no need to chase into the party wall to bury pipes that might later leak. Would you be happy for your neighbours to do that for 'your' party wall

No you are quite right and that is why I was concerned when the plumber suggested they tile right up against the party wall.

 

[Aurelio]

The reason I asked was to determine whether the water you were seeing was caused by a leaking service pipe or perhaps due water escaping past the seal of the shower tray. From the little that can be seen either of these could be the root cause but the remedy for each is very different. That aside though it looks like the shower service pipes were boxed in against a previously tiled wall and plastic 'push fit' piping and fittings used to connect the old - presumably copper pipe - services to the shower head and control system. Given that there were, and are, no services embedded in the external wall beneath the window I am a trifle surprised the plumber(?) has removed those particular tiles and opened up the lath and plaster wall behind it. Do you know why this was done?

In terms of remedial work I would have said that this was overkill and potentially much more extensive and expensive than I would have considered necessary to effect the needed repairs. Much of this is concerned with ripping out all of what was previously done only to then do pretty much the same work and largely using the same methods and products in the shape of a new tray, screen and shower controls, etc. Yes, moisture resistant plasterboard would be beneficial but I would take a lot of convincing to agree this was a critical omission in the original work. Is your plumber proposing to re-use the extant kit or and, as @Stevers has said it is far from reasonable to cut into a party wall to then embed new water services there.

Frankly, given your desire to simply get the shower back into service asap then you should consider a more minimal approach focused on ensuring the services are and will remain free from leaks AND ensuring that there is effective access for future maintenance whilst re-establishing the tiled walls and water tight fit of the shower tray. The biggest problem I would have foreseen would have been finding suitable replacement tiles for those that have been broken out.

Thanks, Cubist, for your detailed reply. My priority has been to identify the source of the problem and deal with the leak. However, as you said, the cowboy plumbers assumed the pipes were against the wall below the window and have now created a large hole in the wall. Fortunately, the laths appear to be in good condition, though I don’t want to keep them exposed for too long.

The original plumbers offered to try to source tiles and carry out a repair, but given the damage they’ve already caused, I’m reluctant to use them again and have been trying to find other reputable plumbers instead. I don’t want a repeat of this situation, so as you mentioned, ensuring future access to the pipework for maintenance is important.

Given the extent of the work already undertaken, I’m minded to replace the shower, tiles, and tray, and, most importantly, have the pipework replaced in copper. I suppose it could be worse.

 

[Aurelio]

Agree that's the reason its been stepped out and possibly also to give a straight and flat surface for tiling. If you go for a concealed shower mixer they do require quite a bit of depth behind the wall although it looks like what you formerly had was a surface mounted one.

Use cement board or tile backer board not green plasterboard. The green stuff is a bit more moisture resistant but I wouldn't trust it inside a shower cubicle.

Where does your current extractor fan go? Does it vent out through the eaves or similar? Most inline extractors don't really move enough air to have much effect and if its connected with flexible corrugated ducting taking a tortuous route then that slows the flow even more. Also remember that you need to allow the same amount of air back in that you take out so you need a decent gap under the door or similar. We have a big fan unit in the loft connected by 5" rigid ducting and venting through the roof. It runs on a slow trickle all the time and goes into boost when the shower is running. The room dries up very quickly after a shower

Thank you for your response. The extractor is operational, albeit only just. The existing window is fixed shut, so I am considering replacing it with an openable unit, or potentially incorporating a trickle vent if feasible. The extractor currently vents externally through the eaves.

 

[Cubist]

My father was an engineer and one of those stoic, laconic types who never seemed to get excited about much in his professional dealings. On rare occasions though he would be found to be fulminating and quietly seething after he'd come across a situation in which he had found it necessary to completely dismantle or even destroy a piece of equipment or an installation of some kind because, as he put it at the time, "Some moron failed to think about how a repair could be made quickly and easily in the event of an entirely foreseeable fault." Some years after explaining this to me he did ask if I knew what I was doing when he learned I had applied to join the RAF - he knew I could fix an engine problem but was not convinced I could do it at 30,000 feet from inside an aluminium tube - his words.

Sorry but I suspect that an earlier set of cowboys were involved in the design/construction of your shower installation and they either did not think or care about what may happen in the event of a simple leak or drainage problem. I suspect you're right, sadly. Everything will have to come out and perhaps all that wooden carcassing too because in all likelihood you will not find a replacement shower tray, should that too need to be replaced, with exactly same dimensions. When hiring someone to do this work be sure to ask them to explain how their new design would be able to handle the making of a simple repair in the future.