Advice on Victorian Chimney Breast

[THills]

Hello, I recently had an old gas fire removed from a Victorian house and I'm considering the options for what to do next. I don't have much experience with old houses or DIY so would appreciate any advice.

The gas supply has been disconnected by an engineer and the chimney has been swept. The chimney sweep said the space behind the gas fire was bigger than he anticipated but this was probably because it had originally accommodated a much larger open fire.

Initially, I would just like to know a bit more about the chimney breast and its history and have some questions:
- Is this the original space for an open fire or has it been changed at some point?
- What are the different layers? I understand that the pink material is probably gypsum plasterboard but are the grey parts exposed likely to be original lime plaster?
- What is the material that was under the hearth likely to be, some sort of slate?
- What would you recommend that I do next? I don't think I can afford an antique fireplace so might need to brick it up in some way and do something with slate type material.

 

[Cubist]

A couple questions/thoughts for you before trying to respond to yours if I may;

• Presumably the chimney remains open at its top or has it been properly sealed?
  • If it's still open you need to decide whether you will install any kind of heating system - open fire, fire basket, whatever - that needs to vent waste gases to atmosphere via the flue.
  • If its been properly sealed in the past is there any evidence of damp in the loose materials in the hearth that may suggest rainwater ingress from the chimney opening or perhaps due to a fault in the materials used to seal it?
• If you have no plans or desire to install a new heating device in this space and elect to close the opening permanently you will probably need to include an air vent near the foot of the hearth to induce and support air movement in the body of the chimney to allow accumulated damp to be absorbed into the atmosphere for transport outdoors.

- Is this the original space for an open fire or has it been changed at some point? Probably but its impossible to be certain without closer examination.
- What are the different layers? I understand that the pink material is probably gypsum plasterboard but are the grey parts exposed likely to be original lime plaster? The topmost layer is almost certainly a gypsum plaster skim coat that MAY have been applied over a a plasterboard panel but equally it could have been applied over a plaster and/or mortar render coat. Its not possible from these photos to say whether the render coat is a cement or lime based material.
- What is the material that was under the hearth likely to be, some sort of slate? Do you mean the interior floor of the hearth or the section that projects out into the room? Depending on when the house was constructed it may have been a simple brick base or even concrete. A slate lining would be a little unlikely to my mind but a slate bed projecting out into the room is fairly common.
- What would you recommend that I do next? I don't think I can afford an antique fireplace so might need to brick it up in some way and do something with slate type material. You really need to decide whether you will ever install a heating appliance in that space before making further plans.

Hope this helps. Cheers for now.

 

[Stevers]

If Victorian there would have been a builders' opening with a brick arch across the front all of which is a structural component of the house. Within this would be a fireback and associated infill brickwork, and on the front a fireplace surround and/or inset usually incorporating a basket. The Victorians had a lot of experience with coal fires and were adept at modifying older fireplaces to be more efficient, most of those mods being enthusiastically removed to restore originality. Slates are relatively thick and would be flush with the floor, so it's either been removed and replaced with render, or perhaps that render was the base for tiles. We took out a tiled 1940s fireplace ready to fit a full on repro Victorian style fireplace, and were pleasantly surprised to find the original 140 year old slate complete and intact underneath.

I'd hazard a guess that what you have there is a heavily messed about with fireplace opening with gypsum over cement render across the front. The modern way is to expose and make a feature of the builders' opening and stick some sort of stove in it. If that's your intention than you need to have a look inside to see if the arch of the builders opening is still sound and then gently expose the original opening - there should be at least 9" of sound brickwork each side being the structural part of the chimney breast/fireplace. If the flat top to the opening is a concrete lintel then that's not original either. That looks to be quite a large opening already, and it looks like there is scope for it to be a bit wider and taller.

 

[THills]

A couple questions/thoughts for you before trying to respond to yours if I may;

• Presumably the chimney remains open at its top or has it been properly sealed?
  • If it's still open you need to decide whether you will install any kind of heating system - open fire, fire basket, whatever - that needs to vent waste gases to atmosphere via the flue.
  • If its been properly sealed in the past is there any evidence of damp in the loose materials in the hearth that may suggest rainwater ingress from the chimney opening or perhaps due to a fault in the materials used to seal it?
• If you have no plans or desire to install a new heating device in this space and elect to close the opening permanently you will probably need to include an air vent near the foot of the hearth to induce and support air movement in the body of the chimney to allow accumulated damp to be absorbed into the atmosphere for transport outdoors.

- Is this the original space for an open fire or has it been changed at some point? Probably but its impossible to be certain without closer examination.
- What are the different layers? I understand that the pink material is probably gypsum plasterboard but are the grey parts exposed likely to be original lime plaster? The topmost layer is almost certainly a gypsum plaster skim coat that MAY have been applied over a a plasterboard panel but equally it could have been applied over a plaster and/or mortar render coat. Its not possible from these photos to say whether the render coat is a cement or lime based material.
- What is the material that was under the hearth likely to be, some sort of slate? Do you mean the interior floor of the hearth or the section that projects out into the room? Depending on when the house was constructed it may have been a simple brick base or even concrete. A slate lining would be a little unlikely to my mind but a slate bed projecting out into the room is fairly common.
- What would you recommend that I do next? I don't think I can afford an antique fireplace so might need to brick it up in some way and do something with slate type material. You really need to decide whether you will ever install a heating appliance in that space before making further plans.

Hope this helps. Cheers for now.

Thanks for your advice, it’s very much appreciated.

This chimney breast is located in the living room and the top of the chimney has been capped. There hasn’t been much rain recently but the interior of the chimney seems relatively dry. There’s a log burner in the dining room so we probably don’t need another heating source in this room.

 

[THills]

If Victorian there would have been a builders' opening with a brick arch across the front all of which is a structural component of the house. Within this would be a fireback and associated infill brickwork, and on the front a fireplace surround and/or inset usually incorporating a basket. The Victorians had a lot of experience with coal fires and were adept at modifying older fireplaces to be more efficient, most of those mods being enthusiastically removed to restore originality. Slates are relatively thick and would be flush with the floor, so it's either been removed and replaced with render, or perhaps that render was the base for tiles. We took out a tiled 1940s fireplace ready to fit a full on repro Victorian style fireplace, and were pleasantly surprised to find the original 140 year old slate complete and intact underneath.

I'd hazard a guess that what you have there is a heavily messed about with fireplace opening with gypsum over cement render across the front. The modern way is to expose and make a feature of the builders' opening and stick some sort of stove in it. If that's your intention than you need to have a look inside to see if the arch of the builders opening is still sound and then gently expose the original opening - there should be at least 9" of sound brickwork each side being the structural part of the chimney breast/fireplace. If the flat top to the opening is a concrete lintel then that's not original either. That looks to be quite a large opening already, and it looks like there is scope for it to be a bit wider and taller.

Thanks for your response. I’m not experienced with even minor renovation work and it’s difficult to imagine what is possible or speak to contractors, etc, without some basic knowledge.

It’s interesting that there may be a brick arch that is still concealed. I’ve seen some examples where that has been exposed and that could provide an interesting focal point for the room. In order to achieve that I assume that the gypsum layer would need to be removed along with whatever is under that? Is it likely to be just one layer of concrete or lime applied directly to brickwork and does the type of material change the process much?

If the grey section at the top of the opening is a lintel what would usually be above it? Some combination of bricks and concrete? I suppose the structure of the gas fire supported this previously and it has now been removed.

It’s not very visible in the photo but there is some slate projecting into the room that surrounds the yellow/sand coloured material. Do you have any idea what yellow coloured material is and what I could do with it? It would make sense that there may have been tiles there in the past, does that seem likely?

 

[Cubist]

In which case theres little advantage in keeping it open. I think I would condor how best to close it up to maximise floor and wall space in that room. That said I would take some advice from others here regarding how to best ventilate the chimney just in case.

 

[THills]

In which case theres little advantage in keeping it open. I think I would condor how best to close it up to maximise floor and wall space in that room. That said I would take some advice from others here regarding how to best ventilate the chimney just in case.

Yes, I suppose we will get it bricked up but I'm not sure what to do with the area in front of the old fireplace. It's a combination of slate and some sort of other material which is yellow in places (cement or screed?). It doesn't have much visual appeal!

 

[Cubist]

What is the nature of the surrounding floor - timber planks or solid? Also, what's your plan for the floor covering if any?