Are cast iron gutters safe?

[Gary1111]

Hi, I have an 1880s cottage, I have been looking up at the heavy cast iron guttering and drain pipe and thinking if they fall down they could do some damage.

Should it be replaced with plastic?

 

[Kearn]

So would your roof tiles. Or your chimney. They’re not dangerous because of what they’re made of, but could be if their maintenance isn’t kept up. Just like anything that needs maintaining.

That said, they’ll have so many adequate brackets and supports, even if a failure occurred, it wouldn’t be catastrophic. What you’ll get with cast through ignored maintenance is holes where they no longer function and the constant dripping is fangerous to your property. And wallet.

Plastic has no place on a historic building.

Many folks wish they still had functional cast rainwater goods, treasure them. They’re traditional and very expensive to replace.

 

[housegolem]

i would second Kearns views

Even my 100 year old cast gutters will outlast some plastiflo replacements - after a hard wire brushing, a few coatings of decent black paint, and new galvanised and powder coated brackets

time or money, its one or the other for a good job !

 

[aockenden]

Early on in our renovation before we had fully committed to using natural, authentic materials, we made the mistake of putting up plastic gutters and downspouts. I’ve regretted that decision ever since.

 

[Flyfisher]

Plastic has no place on a historic building.

Hmm, that's a slippery slope. I understand the sentiment but what about plastic wiring and other electrical fittings or plastic drainage or plastic water pipes?

Sure, we could argue that those examples are basically invisible, but so is plastic guttering in practice or at least indistinguishable when it's 20 feet up. Downpipes could arguably be a different case, but then why not use lead downpipes instead of the 'new-fangled' cast iron downpipes?

I'd far rather have properly functional plastic guttering protecting a period property than rusting, leaking cast-iron guttering leaking water into the tops of walls and causing the sorts of problems that are frequently mentioned on this forum.

Our forebears built houses with the materials available to them. Cast iron gutters instead of plastic gutters, iron metalwork instead of stainless steel, lead water pipes instead of copper and now plastic. If today's materials had been available to them I have little doubt they'd have used them where their application would have been superior.

It could also be argued that all the luxuries of modern life have no place in an historic building - electric lighting, central heating, all manner of kitchen applicances, etc, etc - but I'd bet that no one wants to live in a truly authentic historic manner. It's all a matter of degree and the sensitive use of modern materials, which of course opens such discussions to subjective opinions, hence the slippery slope.

 

[Kearn]

Hmm, that's a slippery slope. I understand the sentiment but what about plastic wiring and other electrical fittings or plastic drainage or plastic water pipes?

Sure, we could argue that those examples are basically invisible, but so is plastic guttering in practice or at least indistinguishable when it's 20 feet up. Downpipes could arguably be a different case, but then why not use lead downpipes instead of the 'new-fangled' cast iron downpipes?

I'd far rather have properly functional plastic guttering protecting a period property than rusting, leaking cast-iron guttering leaking water into the tops of walls and causing the sorts of problems that are frequently mentioned on this forum.

Our forebears built houses with the materials available to them. Cast iron gutters instead of plastic gutters, iron metalwork instead of stainless steel, lead water pipes instead of copper and now plastic. If today's materials had been available to them I have little doubt they'd have used them where their application would have been superior.

It could also be argued that all the luxuries of modern life have no place in an historic building - electric lighting, central heating, all manner of kitchen applicances, etc, etc - but I'd bet that no one wants to live in a truly authentic historic manner. It's all a matter of degree and the sensitive use of modern materials, which of course opens such discussions to subjective opinions, hence the slippery slope.

Well, in totality of course you’re right and I wholeheartedly agree!

But in context, plastic gutters, windows and other odds and sods on show massively change the aesthetic of the building. Details matter… might be why we’re still homeless 8 months into our 6 month project

I’m not wasting money on copper plumbing where it isn’t seen. I am hiding electric cables in copper pipe though where surface run, as that’s an absolute no no for me when we’ve spent so long unveiling the beautiful timber frame.

I’m far from the view of living like the original occupants, that would be daft. However, there are options available to us, some more appropriate that others.

 

[Flyfisher]

Yes, details matter, which is probably why I'm 15 years into a 3 year project, though fortunately not entirely homeless

Windows, I grant you. I've never seen a good looking plastic window and even inappropriate wooden windows can completely alter the aesthetic of a building. I'm also with you on surface-run electrical cables; conduit seems far more appropriate somehow. We used to have plenty of both but have largely eliminated the surface-run cables, leaving the conduit largely untouched.

Plastic plumbing is an interesting one because I'm not entirely convinced about the longevity of push-fit O-rings and have always favoured soldered copper pipework even where it cannot be seen. I think I have a phobia about hidden water pipes unknowingly leaking and causing considerable damage before the problem is noticed. Having said that, one of my first jobs here was to make a serviceable bathroom with plenty of push-fit plastic pipework and it lasted about 12 years without problem before I finally got around to refurbishing it properly, so I may be worrying too much!

As for 'unveiling the beautiful timber frame', I'm also with you on that, though our house is a constant reminder of how fashions can change because much of its wonderful close-studded timber frame (c.1550) has been severely hacked about in order to insert large sash windows and then render the entire facade, covering all the original windows - an act of complete Georgian vandalism that certainly wouldn't have been granted Listed Building Consent has it been required a few hundred years ago.

So, against all that, a bit of plastic guttering that is barely noticeable 25 feet up in the air doesn't seem such a heinous crime to me, even though I must plead guilty m'lud. In my defence, I have also installed new cast-iron guttering in some single-storey places where it is more noticeable, so I hope I'm not a complete heathen.

As you so rightly say, there are options available to us, some more appropriate than others - it's how to determine what's appropriate, or more to the point, who determines what's appropriate that's the real conundrum. But irrespective of relatively minor differences of opinion, I'd say the one thing that really matters is that this forum is full of people who CARE about our historic buildings and that alone goes a very long way to helping to preserve them for the future.

 

[a twig]

I just wish I could afford those wonderfully budget destroying copper gutters and downpipes that are available these days.

Sadly other works are higher up the priority list so plastic it is for now.

I do hate the creaking noises black plastic makes in the sun though.

 

[CliffordPope]

That's caused by the heat expansion and contraction sliding the gutters through the clips. Better designed clips would be lined with teflon or similar so that they could slide effortlessly without creaking. But the creaking made by timber and slates at the end of a hot day in a traditional house is of course something else!

There is a make of plastic guttering and pipework that has a kind of faintly textured surface which looks incredibly realistic. It's more expensive than plain plastic.

One major fault of all plastic however is that it tends to slowly sag over time. Gutters and horizontal pipework need about twice the number of brackets and supports of cast iron. Even a slight sag in a gutter is a dead giveaway when you run an eye over a roof.

 

[Flyfisher]

I can't say I've ever really noticed or been annoyed by the creaking of plastic guttering, but I know exactly what you mean and the other annoying effect is that the brackets can sometimes act as a 'ratchet' so that the guttering joints gradually work themselves apart. I solve this by using a 20mm stainless woodscrew, or two, through each joint in the guttering.

Copper guttering does indeed look wonderful. I recal first seeing it widely used in Germany and Austria many years ago but I've never seen in in the UK. I imagine it is very expensive, which is why I was curious about its apparently widespread use in other countries because it didn't seem to be limited to very grand buildings, many/most were quite modest residential houses.

 

[a twig]

Cheapest suppliers in the UK seem to be £90 for a 2m length of gutter so ironically it’s more accessible for smaller houses as you don’t need as much

 

[LadyArowana]

Oooooooh, you’re damaging my piggy bank. That copper guttering looks beautiful and I have a tiny run of very visible plastic from the ground floor patio area into the basement… PS I know my hanging pots aren’t very pretty, but my baby oak trees aren’t big enough for their planters yet.

 

[DaveG]

I have cast iron guttering along the front of my house and it’s leaking in a number of places, mostly the joints. I’ll be honest and say I’m quite keen to replace however not with plastic.
Copper is very expensive but as a happy medium, aluminium can offer the same look and longevity while being much lighter weight: https://www.rainclear.co.uk/guttering/cast-aluminium-gutters/victorian-ogee.html

It’s still not cheap by any means but what is with these houses!

Galvanised steel is also an even cheaper option than aluminium. May not last as long but should still outlive plastic.

150mm Half Round

Roofart 150mm Half Round Steel Gutters from Steel Superstore. The 150/100 steel guttering system suits commercial properties and homes with a large roof area.

steelsuperstore.co.uk

 

[Cubist]

I too like the copper rain goods but I am not so fond of verdigris and a definite foe of Brasso!

 

[Kearn]

I have cast iron guttering along the front of my house and it’s leaking in a number of places, mostly the joints. I’ll be honest and say I’m quite keen to replace however not with plastic.
Copper is very expensive but as a happy medium, aluminium can offer the same look and longevity while being much lighter weight: https://www.rainclear.co.uk/guttering/cast-aluminium-gutters/victorian-ogee.html

It’s still not cheap by any means but what is with these houses!

Galvanised steel is also an even cheaper option than aluminium. May not last as long but should still outlive plastic.

150mm Half Round

Roofart 150mm Half Round Steel Gutters from Steel Superstore. The 150/100 steel guttering system suits commercial properties and homes with a large roof area.

steelsuperstore.co.uk

Rainclear is what I’ve decided on also…

Copper does look epic, but might be a touch too bling for our old girl. I’d rather the rainwater goods didn’t draw attention for any reason!
I ummed and aahhed for a while as to whether to use copper instead of lead on our pentice boards and weather drips. Maybe I’ll wish I had…

 

[Flyfisher]

If it's any consolation, I think lead is the right choice for such things and is what I've used.

 

[Flyfisher]

I too like the copper rain goods but I am not so fond of verdigris and a definite foe of Brasso!

Interesting that you mention that because I thought much the same when I first saw copper rain goods in Europe, but I don't recall ever seeing any in poor condition so I've always wondered if they are treated in some way to prevent oxidisation or other corrosion. Certainly, anything high maintenance (well, higher than normal) would be a definite turn-off for me.

 

[a twig]

Some have a UV resistant anti-oxidation coating applied from factory, others you apply the coating yourself, otherwise yes green in 5 or so years.

Beauty in the eye of the beer holder and all that but I don’t mind the green, property and colour scheme dependent

 

[housegolem]

coincidentally, i bought my brackets from rainclear. And drove to pick them up in swindon- it's a smart operation, in a very non-descript industrial estate. It was the first time i'd also seen copper guttering and remember thinking i definitely can't afford that

 

[Cubist]

Some have a UV resistant anti-oxidation coating applied from factory, others you apply the coating yourself, otherwise yes green in 5 or so years.

Beauty in the eye of the beer holder and all that but I don’t mind the green, property and colour scheme dependent

I suspected the copper was probably coated with something to protect the finish from oxidation but..... I had a Lancia Dedra at one time the smart allow wheels of which had such a coating that failed abysmally - Italian Engineering nuff said!