Broadband installation

[AMichael]

hello!

I’m shortly going to be moving into a Grade II listed cottage and I’m looking at broadband providers. The property has an open reach phone line, but I’ve noticed that when I’m browsing broadband deals each provider says an engineer will still be required for an install. Is this something that’s going to need building consent, or should they be able to use the existing internal box?
Practically, LBC will take at least 8 weeks and obviously I can’t be without internet that long for my job

 

[fernicarry]

Has it never had broadband? I would have thought the only reason for an engineer visit would be to fit the splitter faceplate but if that's already been done I can't imagine what else they would do. Possible if the line has been ceased for some time they might have robbed the pair for something else so it needs an engineer to wire it up again but that would be cabinet work out in the street. Or the information could just be wrong... Can you tether to your mobile phone for work just in case?

 

[Robola]

Or they have stopped allowing new copper orders and you can only get fibre to the premises. Either way it is a broadband wire, I think you are over thinking it - it wouldn't cross my mind to request consent for something so trivial.

 

[Ebor]

If broadband can be via the phone line (should be), then no need for LBC. If you have access to fibre and it needs connecting/installing, then you would as they’d be drilling a new hole and putting a box outside.

I would go ahead, as you say you need it up and running. You can always make a call on the day when the engineer comes if they suggest anything other than just setting things up, or cabinet work as fernicarry says.

 

[AMichael]

Thanks for the replies guys! So from when we looked around there is a phone line which is how the previous owner had internet (it’s currently unoccupied now) - so I’m guessing that was old copper internet. It seems all providers are only offering FTTP now.

I was considering just going ahead and making clear about it being listed, because I can’t see any other option other than waiting for two months with no internet!

 

[AMichael]

I’m also probably an over thinker !

 

[Robola]

Openreach as a company won't care about it being listed, the individual installer might, pot luck really. Openreach have attached all manner of unsightly equipment to our local listed buildings without explicit consent. The wire entering individual properties is insignificant by comparison.

The box doesn't have to go on the outside or necessarily require having a new hole drilled. Be assertive with the installer, they want to finish the job as quickly as possible, you want the best job possible - not always compatible. They also at one point insisted on leaving the copper hooked up as a back up in case the fibre connection wasn't successful. When actually using the old wire to draw the new one through a masonry wall is the least invasive option.

I volunteer for our local community library and recently had fibre installed. Grade b listed (Scotland). The installer couldn't have been more helpful, he fed the new wire through the existing hole and installed the box inside to minimise visual impact. Tidier than when he started.

 

[eezageeza]

if you only have copper to the house you may get pretty awful broadband speeds. We only have copper, and because we live out in the sticks we're a couple of miles from the cabinet that serves our house, and only got 3 Mbps (on a good day!).

So we switched to broadband via the 4g mobile network, and now get speeds typically 40 - 50 Mbps (which is plenty for us!) and when the network is quiet, I've seen 120 Mbps.

And our 4G costs £17 per month, which is considerably less than we were paying BT!

So the moral of the story is don't assume you need a physical connection for broadband, and check out the mobile operators offers.

 

[Kathy]

hello!

I’m shortly going to be moving into a Grade II listed cottage and I’m looking at broadband providers. The property has an open reach phone line, but I’ve noticed that when I’m browsing broadband deals each provider says an engineer will still be required for an install. Is this something that’s going to need building consent, or should they be able to use the existing internal box?
Practically, LBC will take at least 8 weeks and obviously I can’t be without internet that long for my job

My experience. I have Grade II house and have had BT Halo 3 Fibre for years (and a landline, all from the same box on the wall inside). This is what they call FFTC (fibre to the cabinet).
FULL fibre is FTTP (fibre to the property). I had BT here to fix a fault so asked the engineer (who also installs full fibre) to discuss FFTP. He said it requires a box that must be reachable from the ground (not up a ladder). In my case where to put it? Ideally, close to the pole. House is on corner next to footpath. No good there (anyone could tamper with it). Next idea - on wall facing drive, still close to pole but a long way from the part of the house that would use broadband and with thick walls signal wouldn't be strong. He then suggested installing the wire high up along the street side wall and over a 6' wall into the front garden under a window where it would be mostly hidden behind a low box hedge. I wouldn't have contacted CO for that but again the engineer wasn't really sure about the signal strength as even further from the pole and I read that fibre is not flexible like copper wiring so the more bends it has the more likely it is to have issues. So I am sticking with FTTP. Paying a fortune and resentful. Much better deals with other providers but all with full fibre., sigh.

 

[Cubist]

I have written here, rather extensively, about this challenge in the 'Grump of the Day' thread so will not recount that tale again so suffice it to say that after telling us Full Fibre would be available here some time in the next two years we finally got it installed Eight Years later - Fastershire it was not!

Normally the Fibre cables are installed either underground or overhead attached to the old telegraph poles. If underground, a POT would be installed near the boundary of the property to house the connection to the main cable. A new FF cable would then be installed using a mole, under contract from your chosen provider, to make the final connection to the house and terminate indoors. If overhead, the final connection to the house would be made from a POT previously installed at the foot or head of a nearby telegraph pole and in much the same way as any extant copper cable. At the house the incoming FF cable is passed through a suitable hole drilled through the wall and is 'made off' to a plug box that houses the Router connections.

Overall the disruption and visible modifications to the house are negligible - a cable hook/plate for an overhead supply or for an underground connection it may just be a gob of silicon sealant and a few cable clips.

That said; when you place your order for the new service all the suppliers will ask if the property is listed and, if it is, will ask that you ensure that all necessary approvals are secured. This is their lawyers seeking to absolve themselves of any fuure responsibility/culpability. Frankly you can disregard it. You are merely replacing an extant and vital service to your home and there is no appreciable impact to the building itself nor its outward appearance - remember, the copper cable services are being slowly decommissioned across the country and a Fibre Connection will be essential for you to maintain a landline telephone service. Also, some areas are poorly served by any local Mobile connections.

 

[Flyfisher]

I'd suggest there's a lot of overthinking about this.

Firstly, there can be few listed properties (or any properties?) in the UK without a landline telephone. All the copper wires will soon (ish) be replaced by fibre and the physical impact on properties will negligible. The chances of LBC not being granted for a fibre upgrade is about as close to zero as possible so why clog up the already-bordering-on-broken system with basically unnecessary applications?

Worst case is an inconspicuous wall box that could easily be removed with no harm done, should the heritage police ever find enough time and inclination to pursue a prosecution. An internet connection is a basic necessity these days, along with mains water and electricity, neither of which were available when most period properties were built, yet who would consider living in any property without these services today?

A few years ago I had a charger installed for my EV and it never occured to me to seek LBC (and we're G2*). What did occur to me was to have it installed in an inconspicuous and almost invisible location on the side of a wall buttress. It's entirely reversible with no damage to the house (unless you count four holes in the buttress brickwork) and is simply another addition to a c.1550 house charting its long history from a very basic property through all the regular alterations made to it over the centuries. Fibre internet and EV chargers are simply a 21st century additions that, for all we know, will be regarded as quite quaint in another century or so, much like gas lighting is regarded today.

The heritage police have always granted LBC for far more significant additions and alterations to listed properties than poking a wire through a wall because they recognise that without a certain level of modern creature comforts, no one will buy them and maintain them and they will simply decay and be lost forever. Against all that, poking a wire through a wall seems a small price to pay.

 

[Cubist]

Worst case is an inconspicuous wall box that could easily be removed with no harm done, should the heritage police ever find enough time and inclination to pursue a prosecution. An internet connection is a basic necessity these days, along with mains water and electricity, neither of which were available when most period properties were built, yet who would consider living in any property without these services today?

Errrm.... I/we would/did. No mains water here, nor for all five of our neighbours.

 

[Flyfisher]

Ah, well, PPUK members are an elite bunch of nutters people who would tolerate such awful deprivations
I would have included mains sewerage in my previous post as we only have septic tanks and they work fine, so I guess that seems as normal to us as non-mains water does to you. Apparently our house had a borehole for water until mains water came to the village in 1930 so it's a fairly modern thing compared to the age of the house.

 

[Cubist]

We were, and remain, fortunate insofar that one the First Ladies siblings is a Research Microbiologist, so the occasional test for nasties costs nowt as a rule. Also helpful insofar that he has access to some experimental antibiotics/remedies should the worst occur.

I haven't found much use for her other brother yet, he's in the oil business but the wrong kind to be at all helpful here.

 

[Flyfisher]

Does the local water authority not test your water supply?

I recall a member from many years ago having a private water supply but the local water authority was somehow involved and, after testing, insisted they had to have a UV filtration system installed in order to meet statutory requirements. As I recall, they had never had any health issues before the filtration was installed but had more problems with their spring-fed supply drying up in very dry weather and having to use a water bowser until the flow started again.

As for having access to 'experimental' antibiotics/remedies, I'm not entirely sure if that's a good or a bad thing

 

[LadyArowana]

The internet connection into ours ( GII ) was via a box slapped on a windowsill from a wire that ran along the string course? and down by the front door across to the window. Most unsightly. When we were doing the big renovation, after the house had been rrented out for a few years, we did LBC for full rewire etc etc, and included putting some sockets in a handy cupboard hoping we could move the point where the line was. Openreach have to move the box, but luckily when we looked at the old wire it was very badly worn, the outer plastic gone in places but the thin stripy wires were still working because when we signed up with Sky it all booted up. However there hadn’t been a service for a year after the last tenants moved, so we quickly disconnected and then *somehow* the old wire *got broken* and wouldn’t work any more. We had Openreach out and the guys took one look at the ancient wire and said it had to be replaced, so we asked can it be moved ?….. yes, but we can’t drill through the wall or anything like that, of course the builder was well prepared and just happened to have the really big masonry drill and bit and whilst they had a quick cup of tea a hole was made and the new wire installed and point in the cupboard all lovely. Didn’t bother with LBC as it was really just exchanging one hole for another and the building looks better with a wire installed in a discreet place anyway. We had our strategy and tools all ready, and my husband knew nothing of the plans and played the role of innocent householder to perfection and was really pleased that on the spur of the moment we thought about moving the point So if you want it moved you may need a bit of a pantomime, but I wouldn’t bother about LBC

 

[Cubist]

We had our strategy and tools all ready, and my husband knew nothing of the plans and played the role of innocent householder to perfection and was really pleased that on the spur of the moment we thought about moving the point So if you want it moved you may need a bit of a pantomime, but I wouldn’t bother about LBC

(Quick shoulder check - yep, I'm safe) I should be the last one to be amazed by what a pair of fluttering eyelashes and a coy but vaguely puzzled look can get some innocent and naive bloke to do but the First Lady has never inveigled me to participate in any of her underhand plots.... or, has she????

 

[Flyfisher]

Over the years, I've found that the people who come out to do the site work for the big utilities can be wonderfully helpful. Unfortunately, they cannot be easily contacted via the company 'customer support' desk, which in my experience is generally staffed by very polite personnel but with very limited power of getting anything actually done.

Our house used to have two electricity meters fed from two overhead cables from telegraph poles near the house. These were subject to periodic inspections and during one of them I casually mentioned that it would be nice if we could have an underground feed instead. The chap in charge said he could arrange that as long as I dug the required trench. So after getting our local 'man-with-a-mini-digger' to dig the required trench, the electricty bods turned up with three vehicles, including the 'tea van' and cherry picker land rover and proceeded to remove all the overhead cabling , lay the underground trunking, feed through the new supply cable, install a new meter and connect it all up. Total cost to me was £150 and that was for the man digging the trench!

They also removed one of the telegraph poles (and kindly let me keep it, but that was for another project and another story) but had to leave the pole nearest the house because that was being used to supply the telephone cables.

So I then called BT to get their cables rerouted, which was going to cost me until I pointed out they were on an electricity pole that was about to be removed. That seemed to confuse the customer support bod so they arranged for someone to come out and have a look, which they did and the chap who turned up was again very helpful and made all the necessary arrangements at no cost to me.

I also had a similar experience when getting mains gas connected to the house, but I've probably bored on for long enough by now



PS: And there was no fluttering of eyelashes needed either. In fact I suspect that would have been rather counter-productive

 

[Cubist]

PS: And there was no fluttering of eyelashes needed either. In fact I suspect that would have been rather unproductive

Is suspect that anyone who uses the 'Flyfisher' tag knows more than just a little about lures and how to tie them?

 

[AMichael]

Thanks everyone, you’ve allayed my fears! The added complication is I’m currently in contract with Virgin, so moving with them is also going to involve some initial work like Openreach - I’m just not sure if they involve an external box on the property, which is the key here.

Well probably just go ahead and make sure it’s crystal to engineers that they need to use existing infrastructure as far as possible