Feltwell
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Flyfisher said:
I guess the current auction price of £700 no VAT is worth it, given convience of location and immediate availability, but not a lot more.
- Thread starter JoceAndChris
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I guess the current auction price of £700 no VAT is worth it, given convience of location and immediate availability, but not a lot more.
JoceAndChris
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Yay! Got it for £831.11. I've spent considerably more on a handbag, and the new price makes a mess of £2000, so pleased with that. Thanks so much Feltwell for finding it!
Feltwell
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That's OK - hope it does the trick for you. You might not quite get that much for it once your borehole is done, but it will save you an immense amount of hassle in the meantime and save you the repeated hiring fees if this dry spell continues.
Flyfisher
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JoceAndChris said:
Far more useful than a handbag surely? :wink:
I'm sure it'll feel much happier now you have some independence regarding water supply. It'll be interesting to see how often you have to use it and whether it will change your views about the expense of a borehole.
FamilyWiggs
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JoceAndChris said:
In my experience though, the average lady's handbag is much more commodious (and heavier) than your new water bowser. I do so hope you can accessorise the colour of your new bowser bag.
LadyArowana
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FamilyWiggs said:
Joce and I would like you to note that we are not "average" ladies, how very dare you :lol:
FamilyWiggs
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JoceAndChris
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Flyfisher said:
Mm- we were all set to send off £450 to the British Geological Survey for the survey of the garden, the first step of initiating the drilling as it tells you if you can or not, can't now with this big expense- it will have to wait a couple of months. Buying drinking and cooking water is a pain, the bowser water isn't going to solve that unless we sink a new clean tank in the garden and get clean water from my parents rather than the spring at Croxton. http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/30072
Chris and I have been pretty digestively challenged this week. I can only think it must be because usually the dishes go through the dishwasher, which runs on state of the art filtered well water. Now I'm washing up in manky old rainwater, the very dregs of the tank until yesterday. Our rainwater tank's got several inches of mud and worms at the bottom, clearly if I'm going to wash up long term in water stored in there we need to put in some kind of sterilisation. There is a filter, made of clear plastic, sometimes I see earthworms in there! It needs something more heavy duty :lol:
Flyfisher
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Hmm. Not easy. Now you have a bowser at least you have access to cleaner water, albeit not wonderfully convenient. Have you thought about matching it with one or two of those IBC tanks and plumbing them into your water pipework rather than just tipping the bowser water into a mucky-sounding storage tank. You could then have at least one tap to provide clean water for drinking and cooking. I'd have thought that a dishwasher would be safe to use with just rainwater, especially on the hottest setting, as bugs don't usually like detergent - but don't take that as expert advice!
Feltwell
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FF's got a good point. Given a day and a little bit of ingenuity then I reckon I could rig up an IBC* linked to a seperate indoor tap without too much trouble, so you bring drinking water in your bowser, transfer it to an IBC then pipe it into the house. Or even connect the bowser up direct, although that does make it much more inconvenient when it does run out. No, that's not an offer! :lol:
Even better would be if you could tee one into your well pipework, with a valve so you can switch between well and IBC/bowser. That should be quite easy to do as a temporary arrangement - if the pipework is accessible. Where is the pump for your well? Is it a submersible unit in the well itself? Still not impossible to connect the bowser but much easier if it can be parked above the point of the highest tap.
Rather than using the spring, can you not get drinking water from a local friend or your parents? So long as you know someone who is unmetered of course!
* If you don't know what an IBC is - it's one of these
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1000LT-IB...698?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item41636d9ae2
Long term though, the borehole has to be the way to go. You might want to be at Beacon Cottage so long that you are carried out in a box, and whilst it's a long long way off you don't want to be getting elderly and worrying about water / messing about with bowsers.
Even better would be if you could tee one into your well pipework, with a valve so you can switch between well and IBC/bowser. That should be quite easy to do as a temporary arrangement - if the pipework is accessible. Where is the pump for your well? Is it a submersible unit in the well itself? Still not impossible to connect the bowser but much easier if it can be parked above the point of the highest tap.
Rather than using the spring, can you not get drinking water from a local friend or your parents? So long as you know someone who is unmetered of course!
* If you don't know what an IBC is - it's one of these
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1000LT-IB...698?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item41636d9ae2
Long term though, the borehole has to be the way to go. You might want to be at Beacon Cottage so long that you are carried out in a box, and whilst it's a long long way off you don't want to be getting elderly and worrying about water / messing about with bowsers.
JoceAndChris
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Thanks very much for the information and ideas - it's certainly food for thought. A much cheaper solution to a borehole, though far from perfect as you still need to go and get the water. Yes, I could fill up on mains water at my parents.
Here's the set up in the basement scullery Feltwell.
The well is 7 metres deep and under the wooden lid, the pump is submersible and the blue pipe takes it up to the tank in the attic, from whence it's piped to one cold tap in the bathroom sink and also back down to the basement kitchen, scullery and out to the greenhouse. I think. Not sure you could get an IBC down those stone steps, it would have to go outside. Anything's doable though, there must be a way.
Here's the set up in the basement scullery Feltwell.
The well is 7 metres deep and under the wooden lid, the pump is submersible and the blue pipe takes it up to the tank in the attic, from whence it's piped to one cold tap in the bathroom sink and also back down to the basement kitchen, scullery and out to the greenhouse. I think. Not sure you could get an IBC down those stone steps, it would have to go outside. Anything's doable though, there must be a way.
Feltwell
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How much time, effort and expense you put into this really depends on how long you think it will have to last until you get a borehole, and how often and for how long your well is likely to be dry in the meantime.
I'm presuming that there is a float switch in the tank in the attic, that switches the pump in the well on when the tank gets low and switches it off again once the tank is full. I also presume the tank isn't that large.
You have several options:-
Cheapest is if you can park your bowser on a spot that is higher than the highest tap, or put up with it only feeding the lower taps - then connect it into the pipe that comes down feeding water out of your attic tank, i.e. not the one feeding water in from the well. You'd then just get a gravity feed, nice and simple. Ease of doing this depends on how accessible that pipe is, that pipe would have to be cut and a tee piece put in, with valves to allow you to switch off the tank supply and switch on the bowser supply. Chances are you'll need to drill through a wall somewhere to get the feed pipe out to your bowser.
Or you do as above, but connect to an IBC that you keep outside and transfer the water across from your bowser with a small submersible pump. This has the advantage that it gives you a few days grace to go and refill the bowser ready for next time.
Or, either of the above but connect the existing float switch on your attic tank to a submersible pump in either an LBC or the bowser, and pump the water up to the attic tank - then it feeds everything as normal. You could tee the feed into that blue pipe coming out of your well if a straight run to your attic tank isn't practical.
Or, say sod this, it's all too much hassle, chuck spring water straight out of your bowser into your rainwater tank, buy a little bottled water but a lot more red wine to drink :wink:
I'm presuming that there is a float switch in the tank in the attic, that switches the pump in the well on when the tank gets low and switches it off again once the tank is full. I also presume the tank isn't that large.
You have several options:-
Cheapest is if you can park your bowser on a spot that is higher than the highest tap, or put up with it only feeding the lower taps - then connect it into the pipe that comes down feeding water out of your attic tank, i.e. not the one feeding water in from the well. You'd then just get a gravity feed, nice and simple. Ease of doing this depends on how accessible that pipe is, that pipe would have to be cut and a tee piece put in, with valves to allow you to switch off the tank supply and switch on the bowser supply. Chances are you'll need to drill through a wall somewhere to get the feed pipe out to your bowser.
Or you do as above, but connect to an IBC that you keep outside and transfer the water across from your bowser with a small submersible pump. This has the advantage that it gives you a few days grace to go and refill the bowser ready for next time.
Or, either of the above but connect the existing float switch on your attic tank to a submersible pump in either an LBC or the bowser, and pump the water up to the attic tank - then it feeds everything as normal. You could tee the feed into that blue pipe coming out of your well if a straight run to your attic tank isn't practical.
Or, say sod this, it's all too much hassle, chuck spring water straight out of your bowser into your rainwater tank, buy a little bottled water but a lot more red wine to drink :wink:
JoceAndChris
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Thank you for explaining some very interesting options so succinctly! If only I could predict the weather for the rest of my life it would be much easier to make a decision.
Yes, it would be a lot of mucking about to tank clean drinking water in in this way - one issue is that you can't get vehicles ( or bowsers) into the garden currently. ( the bowser we've just picked up is in the garage, we'll run a hose under the garage door, under the gate and into the garden) To get an IBC in you'd either have to cut through the holly hedge or alter the gate arrangement, which is currently, for the back entrance, a narrow door set against a stone wall. I'd feel nervous about leaving it on the public footpath that borders our thick holly hedge.
Still, it could be done and certainly if BGS say we can't have a borehole I think that's an excellent idea. But for an interim solution, it might be too much work. Thanks though Feltwell, it's certainly helpful to consider other options.
Yes, it would be a lot of mucking about to tank clean drinking water in in this way - one issue is that you can't get vehicles ( or bowsers) into the garden currently. ( the bowser we've just picked up is in the garage, we'll run a hose under the garage door, under the gate and into the garden) To get an IBC in you'd either have to cut through the holly hedge or alter the gate arrangement, which is currently, for the back entrance, a narrow door set against a stone wall. I'd feel nervous about leaving it on the public footpath that borders our thick holly hedge.
Still, it could be done and certainly if BGS say we can't have a borehole I think that's an excellent idea. But for an interim solution, it might be too much work. Thanks though Feltwell, it's certainly helpful to consider other options.
Feltwell
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The only other thing you could do with an IBC is get it delivered on a vehicle with a Hiab (a lorry mounted crane) and get it dropped over your hedge, if a lorry could get up close to it. Still, hopefully you'll have a borehole before too much longer and substantially less aggravation than this is currently giving you!
eezageeza
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You can use the environment agency website (http://maps.environment-agency.gov.uk/wiyby/wiybyController?x=357683.0&y=355134.0&scale=1&layerGroups=default&ep=map&textonly=off&lang=_e&topic=groundwater) to see what groundwater sources exist under your house - might give you some indication of what might be possible.
Do any of your neighbours have boreholes?
Do you have any idea what drilling a borehole might cost?
Do any of your neighbours have boreholes?
Do you have any idea what drilling a borehole might cost?
JoceAndChris
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There are a number of boreholes in the area eezageeza and we have a few springs around too. I don't have any neighbours as such though, being isolated in 150 acres of farmland. ( not mine sadly)
Costs are likely to be between 6 and 12k, a wide difference depending on what's found. Thanks for the link, that's interesting.
Feltwell, yes, it could be dropped over, though to be honest the garden needs redesigning. It's always the case of one job leading back to another!
Costs are likely to be between 6 and 12k, a wide difference depending on what's found. Thanks for the link, that's interesting.
Feltwell, yes, it could be dropped over, though to be honest the garden needs redesigning. It's always the case of one job leading back to another!
CliffordPope
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Hello,
I've been following this thread with interest as we live in a very similar situation.
We get our water for all purposes from a well in the garden. It isn't very deep, and seems to be fed from a spring rather than tapping into the water table. There is a standard size tank in the attic feeding the house taps and hot water system, refilled from the well by a pump in the kitchen. There are float switches (old washing machine bits) in the tank, to stop it overflowing, and in the well, so that it stops before pumping dry.
As the year progresses the well gradually takes longer to refill after a pumping session. In winter it will supply unlimited water continuously, eg to fill a bath or wash the car. But gradually it will switch off for a while because it has pumped down to the critical level. It may take only a minute before the level rises again, or it may in the end take several hours. A light stays on in the kitchen to warn of this situation, so obviously at that point we go very easy on the water. No indoor toilet use (compost loo only), rationed baths, etc.
In the worst situation the well dries up completely. That's where the rainwater storage system comes in. We have a 3000 litre storage tank, fed from both sides of the house roof. This can be fed by gravity down to a 2-way tap at the well-head, after which it is pumped automatically up into the attic tank. So usually at some point in the year we switch over to the tank instead of the well.
We use the rainwater for all purposes apart from actual drinking cold, although we are not always strictly fussy. It tastes all right just not as nice as from the well. But we also have big stocks of our well water bottled earlier in the year, in plastic bottles and also 20 litre drums.
There are also reserve rainwater tanks on all the outbuildings. These are used for the garden, greenhouse etc, but can in a dry year be pumped into the main tank. I have a portable pump, invaluable for emergency pumping of water almost anywhere. It would pump out of the well if the main tank failed.
The system has evolved over the years. I have increased the size of the tanks, added more tanks to catch more roofs, altered gutters and downpipes, etc.
I should add that we live in isolated countryside in west Wales. The well water tests OK, although we all drank it for years without bothering. There is no rain pollution, although I conceed roof water may not be perfect because of birds. We just don't think about that - like ducks on a reservoir!
If I had your need for a bowser I would just pump it into the big rainwater storage tank.
I've been following this thread with interest as we live in a very similar situation.
We get our water for all purposes from a well in the garden. It isn't very deep, and seems to be fed from a spring rather than tapping into the water table. There is a standard size tank in the attic feeding the house taps and hot water system, refilled from the well by a pump in the kitchen. There are float switches (old washing machine bits) in the tank, to stop it overflowing, and in the well, so that it stops before pumping dry.
As the year progresses the well gradually takes longer to refill after a pumping session. In winter it will supply unlimited water continuously, eg to fill a bath or wash the car. But gradually it will switch off for a while because it has pumped down to the critical level. It may take only a minute before the level rises again, or it may in the end take several hours. A light stays on in the kitchen to warn of this situation, so obviously at that point we go very easy on the water. No indoor toilet use (compost loo only), rationed baths, etc.
In the worst situation the well dries up completely. That's where the rainwater storage system comes in. We have a 3000 litre storage tank, fed from both sides of the house roof. This can be fed by gravity down to a 2-way tap at the well-head, after which it is pumped automatically up into the attic tank. So usually at some point in the year we switch over to the tank instead of the well.
We use the rainwater for all purposes apart from actual drinking cold, although we are not always strictly fussy. It tastes all right just not as nice as from the well. But we also have big stocks of our well water bottled earlier in the year, in plastic bottles and also 20 litre drums.
There are also reserve rainwater tanks on all the outbuildings. These are used for the garden, greenhouse etc, but can in a dry year be pumped into the main tank. I have a portable pump, invaluable for emergency pumping of water almost anywhere. It would pump out of the well if the main tank failed.
The system has evolved over the years. I have increased the size of the tanks, added more tanks to catch more roofs, altered gutters and downpipes, etc.
I should add that we live in isolated countryside in west Wales. The well water tests OK, although we all drank it for years without bothering. There is no rain pollution, although I conceed roof water may not be perfect because of birds. We just don't think about that - like ducks on a reservoir!
If I had your need for a bowser I would just pump it into the big rainwater storage tank.
JoceAndChris
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Gosh, how fascinating. I've never read of a set up that mirrored mine so exactly. Even down to catching water on the outbuildings. It's interesting to read that you cope fine with occasionally drinking the rainwater, I'd be worried about it but it's amazing how you get used to things.
A couple of key differences between your arrangement and mine - one is Wales versus dry Lincolnshire, the other is your organised system of storing excess water in the winter. And another might be rationing of water, Chris absolutely has to have a shower before the suit and the long commute to the world of investment banking! I'm happy to be a bit more rustic about things.
The main issue I have with it all is that feeling that you'll run out. It prevents you growing veg, flowers, digging a pond or having a nice lawn. But maybe not in lovely lush Wales!
A couple of key differences between your arrangement and mine - one is Wales versus dry Lincolnshire, the other is your organised system of storing excess water in the winter. And another might be rationing of water, Chris absolutely has to have a shower before the suit and the long commute to the world of investment banking! I'm happy to be a bit more rustic about things.
The main issue I have with it all is that feeling that you'll run out. It prevents you growing veg, flowers, digging a pond or having a nice lawn. But maybe not in lovely lush Wales!
FamilyWiggs
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Clifford - thanks. Most interesting. And has given me lots of ideas. I've long wanted to find the water source that would have fed our farm and its barns - but can't. I suspect later development has filled in the well or the spring has moved down the mountain. We basically live on a mountain made of limestone with all too shallow soil on top of it. There are springs below us and small ponds above, but nothing close by.
Your post has set me thinking about rainwater harvesting - especially now we are metered :shock: ; given we have rather a surfeit of the stuff in N Wales too. I reckon I could adapt the current plumbing without too many changes - a run to a couple of drinking water taps and a safe connection to the mains for the greywater pluming if needed. (Obviously will need to check regs on this to prevent backflow, etc).
In terms of harvesting the stuff - do you run it straight to your storage tank and thus cold water tank (in loft or wherever) - or is it filtered first? I'm thinking my gutters get pretty full of leaves, slate, other avian "organic matter", etc, etc.
Your post has set me thinking about rainwater harvesting - especially now we are metered :shock: ; given we have rather a surfeit of the stuff in N Wales too. I reckon I could adapt the current plumbing without too many changes - a run to a couple of drinking water taps and a safe connection to the mains for the greywater pluming if needed. (Obviously will need to check regs on this to prevent backflow, etc).
In terms of harvesting the stuff - do you run it straight to your storage tank and thus cold water tank (in loft or wherever) - or is it filtered first? I'm thinking my gutters get pretty full of leaves, slate, other avian "organic matter", etc, etc.
CliffordPope
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We don't have any sort of filters in the purity sense, just a sort of sieve in the hopper above the main rainwater tank where the two downpipes meet. It consists of a piece of bendy plastic fret bent into a cylinder and glued into a short length of plastic waste pipe. This just happens to be a snug fit on the inside of the hopper outlet, so it sits inside the hopper and catches leaves etc.
I used to have to detach the downpipe and angle it clear of the tank when it was full (also when clearing the filter, to avoid sending a cascade of leaves into the tank). But more recently I inserted a home-made diverter into the pipe, with a flap like the choke on a carburettor which sends the water either into the tank, or straight down the main pipe.
Bought diverters seem only to divert some of the water. I wanted one that would take the entire roof load, to fill the tank in the shortest possible time.
There is a coarse mesh over the foot valve at the bottom of the pipe in the well, to stop small stones getting sucked up into the pump.
The 2-way tap at the top of the well is a beer change-over tap from a pub. I broke into the original continuous pipe at that point to avoid digging, for easy access for switching over, and because it never freezes in the air pocket above the water level and under the lid.
There are various additional controls. The main pump is operated through a relay, to reduce the current through the washing machine pressure-operated sensor switches, and the voltage drop down the cable from kitchen to well for well sensor. A light comes on in the kitchen when the attic tank indicates it needs replenishing. If it stays on it means the pump would like to operate but is prevented because there is not enough water in the well. It is a highly visible warning to the household that water is likely to be short.
There is a switch at the well sensor for overriding it when the tap is turned to tank rather than well. I have not gone so far as to fit a sensor on the big tank. I assess that daily when in use by tapping it, or observing the condensation on the outside.
One thing it does do is make one much more aware of the taste of real water. Pure untreated well water is wonderful to drink. Rain water, after catchment and storage, is flat and a bit musty, but fine in cooking, tea etc. Bottled well water, even after months of storage, is still nice.
But anything is nicer than the disgusting chlorinated stuff that passes for water in houses that are on the mains.
I used to have to detach the downpipe and angle it clear of the tank when it was full (also when clearing the filter, to avoid sending a cascade of leaves into the tank). But more recently I inserted a home-made diverter into the pipe, with a flap like the choke on a carburettor which sends the water either into the tank, or straight down the main pipe.
Bought diverters seem only to divert some of the water. I wanted one that would take the entire roof load, to fill the tank in the shortest possible time.
There is a coarse mesh over the foot valve at the bottom of the pipe in the well, to stop small stones getting sucked up into the pump.
The 2-way tap at the top of the well is a beer change-over tap from a pub. I broke into the original continuous pipe at that point to avoid digging, for easy access for switching over, and because it never freezes in the air pocket above the water level and under the lid.
There are various additional controls. The main pump is operated through a relay, to reduce the current through the washing machine pressure-operated sensor switches, and the voltage drop down the cable from kitchen to well for well sensor. A light comes on in the kitchen when the attic tank indicates it needs replenishing. If it stays on it means the pump would like to operate but is prevented because there is not enough water in the well. It is a highly visible warning to the household that water is likely to be short.
There is a switch at the well sensor for overriding it when the tap is turned to tank rather than well. I have not gone so far as to fit a sensor on the big tank. I assess that daily when in use by tapping it, or observing the condensation on the outside.
One thing it does do is make one much more aware of the taste of real water. Pure untreated well water is wonderful to drink. Rain water, after catchment and storage, is flat and a bit musty, but fine in cooking, tea etc. Bottled well water, even after months of storage, is still nice.
But anything is nicer than the disgusting chlorinated stuff that passes for water in houses that are on the mains.