chimney breast removed advice

[zaceverett]

Removed the plaster ceiling and found the following

I knew the breast had been removed but didn't know how it had been supported. Likes like its held up with the wooden beams screwed into some uprights that are screwed into the wall.

Anybody else had this issue I don't think the wood supports are probably the best method.

 

[88v8]

Unconventional, but the outer structure looks pretty good, assuming the timber is well fastened to the wall - which I guess it's hard to see because one piece of wood is covering the other - the load appears well spread, and is being distributed down the wall by those verticals.

What are those three noggins attached to at the inner end - is that just one of the standard joists? I'd have wanted to double it up, perhaps by bolting a 6x2 to it. Otoh, if you calculate how much load it's carrying, it's not actually that much.
After all, they can just be corbelled back and minimally supported across the middle.

Ivor

 

[Penners]

Zac, it's quite difficult to tell from your photos exactly what's going on. Although we can see what appears to be a concrete surface extending out over the flooring joists, it also appears that there's a partly exposed flue within a brick structure behind the wall. And in your second photo there appears to be part of the (same?) flue visible as a blackened hole in the masonry above the joists.

Are you saying that the chimney breast has been partly demolished below the ceiling? If so, how much of it is actually projecting out upstairs and resting on that timber support structure?

The main timbers themselves look reasonably well specified and capable of supporting a fair load, but it's difficult to see how far the ceiling joists project over the top of the main support lintel. There appear to be three support "opportunities" for them - (a) the main lintel that's resting on the studs, (b)a second beam that's been planted on to the face of that lintel, using two screws each end (?) and (c) some silly little noggins that have been planted on to (b) using a single screw for each one!

If the joists are resting on (a), with (b) and (c) simply there as a kind of insurance policy, then that's reassuring; if they're resting on (b) I'd be concerned; if they're only supported by (c) then I think you definitely need to take some reinforcement action.

Here are some ideas - please remember that these are based purely on what the photographs appear to show.

If the joists rest well on (a), then personally I think I would relax.

If they rest on (b), I would plant another support beam below (b), hard up against it. This one would be strongly bolted to (a). A knee on each stud to give added support to the new support beam would also be worth considering, as a belt-and-braces plan.

If the joists only rest on (c), then I think I would consider removing those silly short noggins and inserting an entire secondary support structure underneath the joist ends, using studs under a new lintel in front of the existing structure.

As I said above, it's difficult to be too sure about any of this on the scant evidence of those photos. For example, we can't see just how much masonry is actually supported on the joists. If it's a massive chimney, then you may need to be thinking about steel support joists.

 

[stuart45]

When I was a nipper I worked with a bricklayer who removed chimney breasts for people without any support under. He reckoned the tying in on the jambs was enough to hold them up. Although there are quite a few around suspended in mid air, it has been known for the odd one to come down with little warning.
The old saying that it's been OK for all these years does not always ring true.

 

[Penners]

The old saying that it's been OK for all these years does not always ring true.

I agree - that ridiculous assertion is based on the same principle as "You'll always find it in the last place you look"!