Chimney height

[Jamie22]

Can anyone help? We are very close to completing on our dream home. Current home owners have insurance. We are unable to insure with their current insurer. There is a chimney for an Aga and oil boiler only. The height of the chimney is c. 1m on a thatched roof. We are being advised that this should be 1.8m to obtain insurance. Given where we are at with purchase, planning applications are not practical without losing our sale. Any advice greatly appreciated

 

[Tuffa]

Hi,

It seems unlikely that the seller will be able to find anyone willing to buy without being able to insure.

Try using some insurance brokers to find insurance for you. I have used a broker in the past when insuring listed and empty properties. Easier than talking to insurers direct.

Are you 100% certain that planning permission is required to increase the height of the chimney? If not, then get in touch with planning.

If planning permission is required, ask the seller to rectify this as part of your conditions, and then sit back and wait for them to sort it all out. However if you have a buyer lined up, then perhaps this feels impossible?

Consider:

• Remove the oil burner and Aga and install alternative heat/cooking source, e.g. air source heat pump, storage heaters, electric Aga…
• Ask a heating engineer whether it is possible for the oil boiler and Aga to be modified (or replaced) to use horizontal flues instead. Find out if this is acceptable to planning (if required), and an insurer.
• Ask seller to get the chimney height increased. Maybe no-one will ever notice. I wouldn’t sleep well with this solution, and I suspect nor would you, but many would! This could allow you to complete the sale and then find an alternative solution.

Each of these would require finding out costs and submitting revised offer to seller unless you are prepared to absorb the costs. I suppose you would need to satisfy the insurer that the work is/would be done, probably by disabling/removing the units prior to sale. You could ask the insurer now if this is a possibility...

Good luck!

 

[a twig]

Replacing the existing pots with really tall ones to meet 1.8m is the easiest way - would probably require hanging new liners in the chimney but could probably get the work done for under £10k all in

Shouldn’t need planning permission to change a pot over - is the building listed?

 

[Jamie22]

Replacing the existing pots with really tall ones to meet 1.8m is the easiest way - would probably require hanging new liners in the chimney but could probably get the work done for under £10k all in

Shouldn’t need planning permission to change a pot over - is the building listed?

Thank you for the note. The building is grade II listed.

 

[Jamie22]

Replacing the existing pots with really tall ones to meet 1.8m is the easiest way - would probably require hanging new liners in the chimney but could probably get the work done for under £10k all in

Shouldn’t need planning permission to change a pot over - is the building listed?

Thank you for the reply. It is grade II listed. Should I ask the current owner to speak with planning to double check?

We were anticipating that we are less than a month from completion so this has turned into a bit of a nightmare

 

[Kearn]

Thank you for the reply. It is grade II listed. Should I ask the current owner to speak with planning to double check?

We were anticipating that we are less than a month from completion so this has turned into a bit of a nightmare

Check what?

You / they, will require LBC to change the pot to a taller one. That won’t happen before you complete. And will add extra cost to the admin side on top of the work.

They look a bit odd to be fair, but it’s easier than building the stack higher. That said, most of your cost will be the scaffold not the work, and it may turn out that once you’re up there to inspect the condition of the existing stack, other remedial works are needed anyway.

Your best bet to not delay the sale, is really to get quotes for the works, add a worst case factor and the cost of the LBC application and drawings etc and negotiate this from the sale price (although wooden dollars if you’re mortgaging).
If they apply for retrospective LBC, it will add months to the process.

Then from an insurance perspective, you will need to agree that the wood burner will not be used until the works are done and some insurers won’t just take your word and require disconnection of the stove.

You always have to factor in that LBC may not be granted. So this has to be a scenario you can live with.

 

[Kearn]

can I ask why the current insurer isn’t an option. There is an obligation normally to continue insuring the property, we encountered this when considering buying a home that had historic subsidence.

That said, I’ve just re-read that the flue only deals with an aga and boiler. The usual insurance concern with thatch is woodburners and the sparks that may come out of the chimney setting ought to thatch. Might be worth explicitly stating that with insurers. .

 

[stuart45]

If you use a tall pot it's better to build it into the stack, rather than rely on the flaunching, which is really for weathering. Normally for 3ft or 4ft pots, the base sat on the brickwork, then a couple of oversailing courses, then one or two in again. A lot of the tall pots you see leaning over are only secured by the flaunching.
A rule of thumb is that 25% of the pot should be built into the stack.

 

[a twig]

can I ask why the current insurer isn’t an option. There is an obligation normally to continue insuring the property, we encountered this when considering buying a home that had historic subsidence.

That said, I’ve just re-read that the flue only deals with an aga and boiler. The usual insurance concern with thatch is woodburners and the sparks that may come out of the chimney setting ought to thatch. Might be worth explicitly stating that with insurers. .

The 1.8m above thatch applies to flues for oil burning appliances as well

 

[a twig]

If you use a tall pot it's better to build it into the stack, rather than rely on the flaunching, which is really for weathering. Normally for 3ft or 4ft pots, the base sat on the brickwork, then a couple of oversailing courses, then one or two in again. A lot of the tall pots you see leaning over are only secured by the flaunching.
A rule of thumb is that 25% of the pot should be built into the stack.

That was why I linked to a 1200mm pot when in theory only 800mm is needed but I should have made that explicit - you’re spot on

 

[Kearn]

The 1.8m above thatch applies to flues for oil burning appliances as well

That’s interesting, not something I’ve thankfully had to contend with! I’d always thought the argument was the flue liners from a stove burning hotter than an open fire and the sparks that may fly out of the top…

 

[Sid]

Hi Jamie22

My wife and I are in a very similar position to yourself in that we are in the process of purchasing a Grade II thatched property where the top of the chimney is currently less than 1.8 from the ridge of the thatch.

I found that County Insurance did not have the 1.8 minimum height requirement. Unsurprisingly, their quote was higher than others although they did at least allow use of the fireplace within the property.

If you haven't done so already, give the Listed Property Owners Club a try (other brokers are available...). Long story short, they found an insurer who gave a reasonable quote, albeit on the stipulation that we do not use the fireplace until we have carried out the work to extend the chimney height to 1.8m. As others have suggested already, we hope to achieve this by replacing the current chimney pot with something larger (will require LBC), but will see what happens once we are in.... We at least won't have to worry about scaffolding costs as that has already been booked as the property will be rethatched within weeks of us moving in.

Good luck with your search.