Damp and musty smell.

[Mimi0037]

Hi.
I have lived in my Victorian terrace for 25years plus and I have noticed the dehumidifier which I have on in the front room bay window is collecting a tank of water in 24 hours. Because it's north facing, it gets so cold in there, the dehumidifier is a godsend

I have noticed a musty smell from the floor, along on the wall, adjacent to the hallway and running up to the entrance to the living room. I decided to call out some plumbers via a home care plan I have because I was sure that I have a leak and initially they thought the leak was coming from the radiator in the living room, which is opposite the bay window but when we lifted the flooring and the old Victorian floorboards today, it was dry!

I've now instructed the company to do a gas trace or something to see if there is a leak somewhere as there are no visible signs of any damp floor level and above.

I've started pulling up the old laminate floor so access to the old floorboards is easier and the underlay for the laminate is bone dry but still the musty smell is there.

There is also signs of mould on the underside of my sofas, which were not flat to the floor so i'm completely flummoxed.

This year I did have a trench built along the bay window as previous the air bricks were at ground level but I'm pretty sure that this cannot be simply rainwater seeping in through the air bricks.

Unless an actual leak is found, I'm doubtful my home insurance will pay out.

Any ideas /suggestions would be welcomed.

Thanks

 

[Cubist]

Sometimes, when presented with issues concerning damp, we can often find ourselves looking in the wrong places for its source. Theres a better than reasonable chance that, rather than your heating system or water distribution pipework, being the root of the problem, the source of the damp is what lies beneath the floorboards of the ground floor rooms. With the dismal summers of this year and last ground water levels have increased considerably and the private and public drainage systems are under pressure to cope and some are struggling.

Internal leaks from CH and water distribution systems are typically easy to identify, isolate and remedy but penetrating damp can be more difficult. In your case though you have lived there for some considerable time and will know if the damp is a new phenomenon or has merely got worse in the the last year? Can you gain access to the underfloor voids to see if there is any evidence of heavy damp in the ground below and does the damp smell get worse when the floor is opened?

 

[Mimi0037]

Thank you. I looked with the plumber under the boards by the radiator but that was dry so this weekend, I'll look where the dehumidifier is picking up more water from.

I have noticed that I have more mould spots on the wall inside which lines with porch but it's not damp either inside or out.

Always issues in winter and never in summer !!

 

[Cubist]

You have a couple of diasadvantages thee concerning potential for damp. The first being the North orientation and second the large bay window. Is the latter single or double glazed? Also, how is this room typically heated and how frequently is the room used? Are there any trickle vents in the window frame and is there any other form of ventilation in the room? When did you install the dehumidifier and what prompted this?

Sorry for the battery of questions but I have some doubts about the efficacy of the use of dehumidifiers in some circumstances.

 

[Mimi0037]

Thanks for your reply.

The room is the main living room with new double glazed with vents above, which are closed at the moment. The main radiator is across the room from the windows but I'm in the process of sorting out a new one in the actual bay window because in winter, it's a real cold spot, similar to the wall in the photo ( mould spots) where you can feel the cold off it.

I originally bought the dehumidifier purely to warm the bay window area up because it is a single brick and I've continued to use it but I have noticed that on the full setting as I've said it will bring out a tank of water in 24 hours.

Having lived here for more than 25 years, I do not remember any of these issues, I never used to get condensation mould anywhere in that room but now I do.

As the plumbing company can't do a leak detection survey for a couple of weeks this weekend I'm going to pull up some more Floorboards and see what's underneath

 

[Cubist]

I have an inkling that the dehumidifier has become a part of the problem. As you know these devices draw in already warm moisture laden air that is then exposed to a refrigerated surface to condense out that moisture for collection and disposal. To my mind it's possible that its use may be significantly reducing benefits of any heating the room receives from the extant radiator. It will also have had a significant impact on the air convection currents in the room which will most likely have reduced the temperature of the bay window area and wall.

It may be an idea to switch the dehumidifier off for a few days or even a few weeks while you observe the situation.

 

[Stevers]

A cynic might claim that the precious electricity that is used to make waste water from the almost infinite supply of atmosphere slowly passing through the room - will end up as heat one way or another!

 

[mardinor]

Switch off the dehumidifier. Clean the mould with proprietary cleaner or bleach solution. Air the rooms (yes, at this time of year). Open the trickle vents. Buy a £7 hygrometer for each room. Stop doing anything you don't usually do that might create water vapour (eg drying indoor washing) or stop it escaping (any new insulation?). Then wait 3 months and see what happens. Whatever you do, don't pay for or listen to any trade experts.

 

[Mimi0037]

Thanks for the advice re the dehumidifier. I will give this a try and keep an eye on the situation. The mould in the bay window appeared without the dehumidifier being on but this weekend, I will be looking under the floorboards!!

 

[noj]

Just a thought - has the mold and smell only really appeared since your nice new double glazing and closed trickle vents?

 

[Mimi0037]

No, the windows only went in last year.
I've turned off the dehumidifier and amazon have delivered a couple of Hygrometers this morning. One is on the unit by the bay window (picture) I have opened the trickle vents on the main window and turned off the dehumidifier and although I can still smell, musty odours, it's not quite as bad as when it's been on so I'll keep monitoring over next 24 hours.

 

[noj]

Sorry, I mistakenly assumed that the smell was a recent problem, not something that had been an issue for years. Guess you can rule out the reduced ventilation that I was suggesting...

 

[Mimi0037]

The smell is recent as in last year I think but the smell has reduced again this morning.
Maybe the dehumidifier was causing more harm than good ?

 

[noj]

I do suspect that the new window may be making the problem more apparent by stopping the drafts that previously either ventilated the space well enough to clear the damp or just refreshed the air to remove the smell?

 

[a twig]

I’d be inclined to agree - reduced ventilation from the new windows no longer masking the symptoms rather than the windows themselves being the cause

 

[Mimi0037]

The previous windows were also double glazed but didn't have trickle vents but they could be kept on the snip

 

[Mimi0037]

we strategically lifted floorboards from the radiator across the room from the window and worked our way back across the room inspecting the water pipe itself and the ground around it. When we got to the bay window part of the pipe was darker and indicating it was wet not dripping but moist even though it was off the ground. So now I have a paper towel underneath it to see if any moisture comes from it and I have to submit some photos to the plumbing people. I've taken advice that I probably need to replace the whole of the pipe from front to back of house given that this pipe would've been down there for much longer than I've lived here.
There is also a piece of wood holding up a floor joist which will need replacing as it's rotten and flaky. I also found a vintage golden wonder crisp packet which I'm yet to date.!

 

[noj]

Sounds very positive!

And that's a manky looking pipe

 

[Mimi0037]

It's a very old pipe but if it is the culprit, it's been doing this for a long time.

Thank you to everyone who has offered suggestions and advice, without you all, I might have been an emotional wreck but instead, I'll be a poor one now!

 

[DaveG]

What sort of pipe is it? A radiator pipe? Where is it running from and to? Why is it running under the window if the radiator is the far side of the room?
Just playing devils advocate but could the moisture around the pipe simply be condensation from a hot/cold cycling pipe in the coldest part of the room? Bay windows are notoriously cold and suffer from more damp issues than elsewhere.
Also if it’s on a combi boiler/pressurised system a leak from a radiator pipe would be obvious as the system would be losing pressure constantly.