Do we need / should we get lime pointing???

[PaulCWinUK]

Hi Everyone!
Any chance of your advice or thoughts? We need chimney repairs on our two chimneys. You can see the state of them here, and that was over 6 months ago.

We've had advice and quotes from 3 different roofers at very different price points.

1. One is a "pure heritage" guy who has quoted for repointing in lime and then a slate cap at the top and code 5 lead for redoing the flashings. Very very expensive. £15.5k

2. Another (semi-heritage) guy has quoted for using sand & cement for repointing and for including a lead DPC tray. About £10k, probably, once he includes scaffolding.

3. Another guy is just a local "standard" roofer but he seems to have a good reputation. He initially quoted for doing code 4 lead for the flashings and sand and cement for the pointing and the flaunching. For this he quoted £2.5k on the basis that he will get getting access via a velux. Then I asked him about doing it in lime. He said he'd never used lime before, so went away to research it, and he came back with a price of £3.7k

There are many questions that we are asking ourselves and wondering about. Here are some of the main ones:
- How important is it really to use lime mortar on a chimney for the pointing and / or for the flaunching?
- How much of a risk is it having someone who has never used lime before using it on our chimney? How does that risk compare to the downsides of using sand and cement? Even chap number 1 told me that a decent DIY job in lime is still better than the risks of sand and cement.
- Is the plan of using a lead DPC tray potentially a good compromise?

It's worth saying that all our chimney routes/fireplaces are open and we intend to keep them that way, so I don't know how important breathability is in terms of the actual mortar/pointing and flaunching. The same goes for flexibility/movement.

Please do let us know your thoughts. Thanks!

Paul

 

[alexander]

the use of lime mortar is important to allow breathability movement & protect the existing brickwork,
health & safety would insist on scaffolding the law has changed & the house holder is now also responsible for making sure any one carrying out work on there property adheres to heath & safety code for working at height,
unless you have used lime mortar in the past it can be a lot harder to use than sand/cement as its the initial after care that's important & for that you need experience you get what you pay for.
good luck

 

[eon]

If it is it all lime at the moment I would go with lime. Introducing cement could, in time, damage the bricks. The back gutter looks to be in ok condition and relatively newer, unless the roofer has found cracks etc. I've redone two out of our three chimneys so far and the idea of working on them without scaffold is alarming! Personally I would rule out option 3 based on that alone! I'm about as close to the sea as you are, I used NHL 5 on the flaunching and oversailing course which is recommended for exposed areas. For the pointing I used 3.5. Not sure about the need for a lead dpc if the flaunching is doing it's job, but perhaps others can speak to this. What's visable of the lead in the photos looks ok, so providing there's no issues with it you could perhaps go with lime and not replace the lead work.

 

[a twig]

the house holder is now also responsible for making sure any one carrying out work on there property adheres to heath & safety code for working at height,

Pretty sure this isn’t true - there’s no expectation for the average homeowner to understand this sort of stuff.

As far as I am aware the only times a homeowner has been found liable is if they provide faulty equipment to a contractor that then injured the contractor, failed to inform the contractor of known existing dangers or actively caused the injury (e.g. knocking over a ladder with a car)

 

[PaulCWinUK]

If it is it all lime at the moment I would go with lime. Introducing cement could, in time, damage the bricks. The back gutter looks to be in ok condition and relatively newer, unless the roofer has found cracks etc. I've redone two out of our three chimneys so far and the idea of working on them without scaffold is alarming! Personally I would rule out option 3 based on that alone! I'm about as close to the sea as you are, I used NHL 5 on the flaunching and oversailing course which is recommended for exposed areas. For the pointing I used 3.5. Not sure about the need for a lead dpc if the flaunching is doing it's job, but perhaps others can speak to this. What's visable of the lead in the photos looks ok, so providing there's no issues with it you could perhaps go with lime and not replace the lead work.

Thanks. Did you do it yourself?? The lead flashing on one face of one of the chimneys has been covered with fibreglass so it seems that one at least needs dealing with, and it probably makes sense to do them both.

 

[paulc]

Whilst doing a small repair on a roof could be done without scaffolding (say replacing a slipped tile), there is a fair bit of work to do on that chimney. The risk of a fall from that height is just too great not to have scaffolding.

I had some flashing put on my chimney a few years back, and the guy that did it used a roof ladder - It was a relatively simple job on one side, and didn't need any gymnastics to do it. He was going to use cement, but I mixed up a bucket of lime mortar for him. Didn't cost me any extra, and he was happy to use my mix.

 

[eon]

Thanks. Did you do it yourself?? The lead flashing on one face of one of the chimneys has been covered with fibreglass so it seems that one at least needs dealing with, and it probably makes sense to do them both.

Yes DIY and completely reroofed it. The roof needed major structural work so it made sense to do it all at once. I already had scaffold though.