Door trims

[alasdairc]

Hi,

I've rennovating my bathroom which has a partition with a glazed section above a doorway. I'm moving the partiion in order to make space for a shower.

I'm building the new partition door frame at the moment and have a question about door trims / specifically the names and approaches.

As it's not obvious from this photo, there are two doorways at 90 degrees to each other.



This is an example of an existing door trim in the hallway. You can see in green where the architrave C is cut for the horizontal trim to fit. You can also see that height of the A section is different to height D. The architrave C is one section of timber.

From my amateur assumption, after scratching my head, the way that was created back in 1900 is the horizontal sections are flat timer with a bead on one side ripped to the correct width then an equal sized bead is attached to the square cut side so that the double bead effect is created. So in this picture D would be one section of timber and the bead on the top is just a dowel of the same diameter pinned on and mitred into the architrave.

For my internal partiion doorway there won't be an architrave just the flat part and the bead - very similar to how this partiion is presented:



Does that make sense? Is this how I should recreate the frame? I have access to a supplier who will provide the following section which seems ideal as I can rip it at the correct width and use a 14mm dowel for the top bead. Any advice or moral support appreciated!

 

[Cubist]

As you've already divined or been told, many of the decorative mouldings found in these old places were created as 'composites' of several different standardised moulding patterns. Many of these are still available from a great many outlets, see the attached link for just one example, and many good joinery shops, as you have already found, can replicate many of these patterns - albeit that there may be some dimensional differences. That said, your approach seem perfectly reasonable and achievable but - using a 14mm dowel to form the upper bead would. I think, be more than a little problematic. Particularly in achieving a clean joint line and fit to the main body of the moulding.

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[paulc]

After hunting around for architrave and picture rail to match what I have here, I couldn't find anything off the shelf. A couple of companies claimed to be able to reproduce the shape on their spindle moulders. But the setup charge alone was enough to put me off.

Ended up purchasing an assortment of router bits and throwing together a router table. Half round, edge beading, and ballnose cutters did the job. Whilst not an absolute perfect match, you'd be hard pushed to spot the difference.

 

[fernicarry]

Sections A and D will be single pieces with a corner bead machined (or could have been planed in the day) onto each side. You really need a router table to recreate this as it needs two passes at different orientations for the full corner. As @Cubist says pinning a dowel on will be quite a fiddle to get it to sit properly and you'll need to put a flat on it to give you some contact area and to get the same profile as the other side.

ETP can probably make sections for you to your exact dimensions. Or there might be a friendly forum member near you willing to help.

Be incredibly careful with the existing partition if you are dismantling or modifying it. Old, dry timber splits very easily. Those top lights look like they could be cylinder glass so they will also be very fragile being very thin.

 

[alasdairc]

I've already removed the partition - the glass is safely stored under my bed. and I've stripped all the paint off the frame, thankfully it will be painted over.



Thanks for all the advie - really appreciate it. I'm not sure if I want to go down the router table setup, I don't think my skills are up to it. I'm actually off to ETP to try and source some matching picture rail and rail for above my t&g panels so will ask what they advise.

In a previous rennovation (previous life) I had ETP make custom skirting tops to match what was there before but that was a whole house and the setup costs weren't astronomical.

 

[alasdairc]

I just had a thought that I could potentially do the following, where A is ripped narrow enough to but against the glazing frame

 

[Cubist]

Looks viable and should work mechanically in terms of fixings.

 

[alasdairc]

Great - going to get a price. Now my only concern is it'll look too busy so I'll see if they have something closer to the quadrant shown in the second picture of my original post.

 

[fernicarry]

the setup costs weren't astronomical.

There shouldn't be any setup costs for doing the double sided bead because all the dimensions and profiles are known. I'm fairly certain that the bead is 9/16" (14.2mm). I'd ask them before going down the ripping route.

 

[alasdairc]

Thought I hit jackpot at ETP as they offered to rip a stock bead and ogee architrave down to a workable width for pennies, however it doesn't have a curved edge at both apexes and ends on a 90 deg on one plane which looks wrong in situ:



The thing about getting them to machine me a custom piece is I only need about 2m of the double beaded section, the rest is just a single bead.

 

[fernicarry]

however it doesn't have a curved edge at both apexes

Hmmm, yes, its only been through the machine once. Quite common unfortunately with reproduction mouldings for them to be a bit lacking. The shape of the quirk isn't right to my mind either, looks more like a wainscoting profile than a corner bead. I'm sure they can do it correctly but for only 2m they might not be keen. Alternatively DM me your dimensions and I'll knock up a piece.