Draft between floors, help?

[Jblakes]

Morning all,

Basically, between the first and second floors i can feel a fairly strong draft of cold air moving round. Is this normal, we have a stone cottage or circa 300 years ago.

I can't figure out where its coming fron or how to stop is, we have two chimneys but fail to see how they could contribute. Any ideas? Its making the rooms cold.

Regards
James

 

[Cubist]

I'm afraid we will need more detail and perhaps a couple of photos to understand the layout, structure, heating systems, etc. before any sensible suggestion may be possible,

 

[Jblakes]

I thought that might be the case.

The house is generic two storey, with joists and carpet upstairs and then old plaster on the underside, no insulation.

For the lights in front room and dining room they have cut out parts of the underside and have bulbs in the recessses. When i put my hand upto them i can feel a big draft. Heading is standard gaa central heating. Nothing special about the joists etc. We have an open chimney in the front and dining rooms but fully bricked out so can't see how they are causing draft.

The house solid stone so cabt under stand how the draft is getting between the floor and why only in that there and not from other places.

 

[Jblakes]

I dont think pictures will help because its just a standard upstairs floor.

 

[Itchinfilth]

Hello,
As a fellow old stone house dweller, it's not to be unexpected. These old houses will historically have had an element of air flow through open chimneys and everything not being sealed to the gills like modern properties. Over the past few days the temperature has really dropped inside here in Yorkshire. The air flow may be of benefit to the house despite the thermal discomfort.

 

[Jblakes]

Have you managed to reduce the cold air coming in? It was bloody cold last night.

Or live with it and put a jumper on?

 

[stuart45]

Air can get through more where the joists are built into the wall. Although in modern houses they are on joist hangers, when built into the walls it was found that there was a fair amount of air leakage though the beam filling next to the joists, so sealants were used between the masonry and the timber.

 

[Itchinfilth]

Have you managed to reduce the cold air coming in? It was bloody cold last night.

Or live with it and put a jumper on?

We just layer up. I refuse to put the heating on until at least 1st November as I'm tight . Once the heating goes on we are fine

 

[Jblakes]

Ah np cheers. Next year problem then, jumper it is

 

[Jblakes]

Is there any downside to shoving rockwool between the joists. Been reading up and seems to be alot of mis info of if you need air circulation between the 1st/2nd floor of a house

 

[Cubist]

Air flow beneath any suspended wooden floor is vital to ensure that moisture from any source can be transported away and ideally expelled from the building. Anything that may prevent or inhibit that airflow risks moisture being absorbed into the timbers to there induce rot or pest infestation. Where rock wool. and the like is used to insulate such floors it is typically suspended between the joists leaving a void below it and any ceiling to allow air transport.

Presumably the lighting you mention earlier is of the LED type which does not generate heat, (may be worth checking if you don't know for sure) so, unless there are gaps or fissures in the brick/stone work then there would be next to nothing to induce any significant air movement except human occupation and activity in the rooms below or the heating systems of the property.

 

[Jahouli]

Just to give an example of the type of gap Stuart referenced. Whilst we had the ceiling down the draft was ferocious on a stormy day. Likely filled with lime mortar when the house-was built but mostly crumbled out now.

 

[Lacan07]

Just to give an example of the type of gap Stuart referenced. Whilst we had the ceiling down the draft was ferocious on a stormy day. Likely filled with lime mortar when the house-was built but mostly crumbled out now. View attachment 17958

Exactly the same in my house, they gashed out the wall to site the joists but didn't make good most of the time.

 

[stuart45]

On new builds they found that a shrinkage gap formed between the mortar and timber, so silicone started being used for a better seal. It was done when air testing came in.

 

[Stevers]

A traditionally built stone house with solid walls will have a lot of voids in the dry stone filling between the mortared outer skins. Although we don't experience draughts from our upstairs floors (fitted carpets and thick underlay), there is definitely scope for air to enter the underfloor vents (and round the edges of the roof/doors/windows) to find it's way into the rest of the house.

In our case a family of long tailed field mice made it's way into our loft (entering via a poorly designed fancy ground floor air vent) scrambling up the clearly continuous voids in the wall. From the noise they made we thought it must be a family of beavers, but with the vents all repaired or covered with a mesh, the dear little souls were captured alive and returned to the great outdoors with no repeat of the invasion.

 

[a twig]

Presumably the lighting you mention earlier is of the LED type which does not generate heat, (may be worth checking if you don't know for sure) so, unless there are gaps or fissures in the brick/stone work then there would be next to nothing to induce any significant air movement except human occupation and activity in the rooms below or the heating systems of the property.

Just as a point of information - LED lighting definitely does generate heat, the difference is the heat is generated out of the chip and the driver electronics and as such is generally dissipated of the rear of the luminaire, rather than incandescent lamps which radiate heat out of the front.
Depending on the specification and output of the LED lighting the amount of heat generated may well be less than the equivalent incandescent or halogen but it is definitely there and has to be managed within the luminaire design. Speaking from bitter experience adequately getting rid of that heat through the rear of a fixture is somewhat more complicated but failure to do so absolutely kills the lifetime and efficiency of your LEDs

 

[Jblakes]

thank you for the image @Jahouli, makes sense and I would expect that's the culprit in my house. I will poke a hole up at some point and have a look. Is silicone stated above the best method to seal these?

 

[stuart45]

Silicone is the best for sealing the joint where masonry meets timber for air tightness. The only issue is that with the joists going into a solid wall there's more chance of damp in the ends so a bit of air flow might help.

 

[Jahouli]

I had the ceilings down so I took the opportunity to pack the largest gaps with lime hemp, then I packed sheeps wool insulation against the stone. I was concerned that shutting off airflow could lead to damp joist ends so I aimed instead to reduce drafts, not stop completely. I had a roll of Airtightness tape I was using around windows and I was tempted to use that on the joist ends, but I resisted. Sometimes on chilly winter nights I wonder if I did the right thing.

 

[Lacan07]

joist ends shouldn't get wet if your guttering is sound and the pointing is good. Use breathable materials like woof fibre or sheets wool to fill gaps and between joists.