Fireplace advice - 1930ish + gas

[richw]

Hi all,

I've been lurking here for some time, and I finally have a question of my own. The property may not be particularly 'period' compared to most on here, but I thought I'd give it a go...

I've recently moved into a 3-bed semi which was built between 1920 and 1931 (according to the deeds). It's the usual layout - bay windows at front etc. In the rear reception room, there is an original coal fire with a tiled hearth/back and solid wood mantel. In the front reception room, there is no hearth/back/mantel - only a 1970s wall-mounted radiant gas fire (!). For the record, the two double bedrooms have small cast-iron fireplaces with tiled hearths.

We are going to refurb the front room, and I would like a fireplace similar in style to the coal one. However, my wife would like a gas fire - and neither of us would seriously consider using only a coal fire at the moment. Are there any recommendations for fireplace suppliers? I'm finding a tile+wood+arch to be a combination which is impossible to find with a gas fire... I guess they are not trendy at the moment? Is a cast iron arch a reasonable compromise? What should I be looking for with gas?

I did see something on c20fires, but it was described as having a 'decorative' (i.e. next to no heat?) gas fire.

Ideas are welcome. Anyone know of any local suppliers/fitters? I'm in Stockton-on-Tees.

P.S. I've attached a couple of pics.

Cheers,
Richard.

 

[FamilyWiggs]

Welcome to the forum Richard.

What a beautiful gas fire - why would you want to remove it? :wink:

I'm not a gas fire expert, and am just nudging this back to the top of the site so others may advise.

Robin

 

[plasticpigeon]

I am no expert and have just joined this forum, but have looked into fireplaces recently as I am fitting one in my place (Although I am fitting an Edwardian style cast iron register grate). I think that something similar could be created using a gas fire basket such as one by Stovax/Gazco. I would put a link but I don't know if that is allowed and I don't want to be responsible for advertising!!!! However I don't know how much heat they give out. The rest of the fireplace could then be anything you wanted. To copy the coal fire I imagine a tiled masonry arch and clay fireback would be appropriate, but you may get a more knowledgeable answer from another forum member.

 

[Feltwell]

Welcome!

Firstly, nothing wrong with 20/30's style houses - they are "period" to my mind, I've always liked the style. Just as well really as if I look out of my window that's exactly what faces my house, which at 1895 is only a little older - a row of 1930's bay fronted houses.

It's nice that you've got one that has got most of it's original fireplaces. That gas fire is pretty hideous - a past 1930's house of mine had one pretty much the same - is there a back boiler behind it for your central heating? Mine was like that, and it made getting rid of it considerably more expensive.

I've also heard the thing about open coal-effect gas fires only being decorative, and wonder if it is the manufacturers covering their backsides. We have a "living flame" gas fire in our lounge - installed by a previous owner - it looks very convincing and chucks out plenty of heat, although I'm sure it's not very efficient. It's a Nu-Flame:-

http://www.nu-flame.co.uk/

By the way, do you realise that you don't have to buy the gas fire as a complete package with hearth, surround etc? It's simpler and cheaper if you do, but you can get gas trays made to custom size if there is no standard one suitable for a fire you like. This is to cater mostly for those who have an original, usually Victorian coal fire that they wish to keep but convert to gas - the old grate comes out and a new gas tray goes in instead.

Speaking of "modern period" properties - I went to see a friend of mine at the weekend who has just moved into his parent's old house, which his architect father - now sadly deceased - designed and built in the early 70's. It has all the '70's fittings - and I don't just mean an avocado bath suite, it was a trendy architect's house and is really rather fabulous. Orange spotlights on tracks in the lounge ceiling, exposed concrete block walls throughout, an old Formica-covered kitchen, deep purple bathroom fittings with wall mounted taps. Yes I know that description sounds hideous, but trust me when it is all together and done properly in the right house it works rather wonderfully. It is a beautifully designed and very unconventional house, very much of it's era.

My friend will keep it mostly as it is, and I'm glad of that. Your bog standard '70's semi is often fairly hideous or just desperately bland - but this is something very different and rather special.

 

[Penners]

Welcom, Rich.

As others have explained above, there are alternatives to the way that gas can provide you with heat. The decision that you're probably going to have to make is where you are prepared to compromise between efficiency and aesthetics. As Feltwell says, you can have flueless "living flame" gas fires, but in my limited experience they tend not to be very efficient. But I believe that a flued gas "open fire" can be a fair bit more effective as a room heater, although I don't know how much more gas it consumes.

I suggest that your best bet is to visit one or two specialist fireplace centres in your area, and have a chat with them. That way you can actually see the appliances in place, working, and experience their heat output for yourself.

Have a look in your local Yellow Pages.

Meanwhile, you might want to browse the gas fire sections of this website, for an idea of the kind of things available.

http://www.fireplaceworld.co.uk/

 

[Feltwell]

As Feltwell says, you can have flueless "living flame" gas fires, but in my limited experience they tend not to be very efficient. But I believe that a flued gas "open fire" can be a fair bit more effective as a room heater, although I don't know how much more gas it consumes

I meant the "flued" type actually - that's what we've got, using the original, now lined chimney as the flue. Chucks out a reasnoble amount of heat but I have heard that not all do. I doubt it's very efficient, the fire being sat as it is beneath an open hole to the stars, the same as a coal fire!

 

[richw]

What a beautiful gas fire - why would you want to remove it? :wink:

Thanks

Funnily enough, since taking that picture, I have disconnected the gas (there was an isolator) and actually removed the thing from the wall completely. There is now a rather large opening! No liners - just a draughty old chimney.

 

[richw]

Welcome!

Firstly, nothing wrong with 20/30's style houses - they are "period" to my mind, I've always liked the style. Just as well really as if I look out of my window that's exactly what faces my house, which at 1895 is only a little older - a row of 1930's bay fronted houses.

It's nice that you've got one that has got most of it's original fireplaces.

Thanks. Yes, the house has most internal doors (1-over-3 style), picture rails, delft racks etc. The only crimes are one fireplace missing and the front and rear windows are upvc. I'm gutted about the upvc, but you can't have it all...

That gas fire is pretty hideous - a past 1930's house of mine had one pretty much the same - is there a back boiler behind it for your central heating? Mine was like that, and it made getting rid of it considerably more expensive.

No, there is no back boiler. The previous owners had an old gas open-vent system replaced with a modern-ish combi. I still have the 1970s rads in most rooms. In a way, I quite like them - I see them as part of the history and character.

I've also heard the thing about open coal-effect gas fires only being decorative, and wonder if it is the manufacturers covering their backsides. We have a "living flame" gas fire in our lounge - installed by a previous owner - it looks very convincing and chucks out plenty of heat, although I'm sure it's not very efficient. It's a Nu-Flame:-

By the way, do you realise that you don't have to buy the gas fire as a complete package with hearth, surround etc? It's simpler and cheaper if you do, but you can get gas trays made to custom size if there is no standard one suitable for a fire you like. This is to cater mostly for those who have an original, usually Victorian coal fire that they wish to keep but convert to gas - the old grate comes out and a new gas tray goes in instead.

Thanks, I'll look at NuHeat. I did wonder if I could do something crazy like wait for a coal fireplace (like my 1930 one) to come up on eBay, then fit that and get some sort of 'gas tray'. But the stuff I've read on those is suggesting that they are 'decorative only'... I really don't know if that'll be a problem. I probably won't know until I've bought something and used it for several months!

Speaking of "modern period" properties - I went to see a friend of mine at the weekend who has just moved into his parent's old house, which his architect father - now sadly deceased - designed and built in the early 70's. It has all the '70's fittings - and I don't just mean an avocado bath suite, it was a trendy architect's house and is really rather fabulous. Orange spotlights on tracks in the lounge ceiling, exposed concrete block walls throughout, an old Formica-covered kitchen, deep purple bathroom fittings with wall mounted taps. Yes I know that description sounds hideous, but trust me when it is all together and done properly in the right house it works rather wonderfully. It is a beautifully designed and very unconventional house, very much of it's era.

My friend will keep it mostly as it is, and I'm glad of that. Your bog standard '70's semi is often fairly hideous or just desperately bland - but this is something very different and rather special.

That sounds fantastic, and I agree with your principle. There are some 1970s houses near here. I think if only they hadn't been wrecked with upvc and strange extensions, they would be quite funky to have in 'period style'.

Funnily enough, the house attached to mine was for sale a few years back, and I viewed it. Although a 1930 house, it was almost as 70s as the one you describe... in a way, I wanted to buy it and keep it like that. I must have odd taste!

 

[richw]

As others have explained above, there are alternatives to the way that gas can provide you with heat. The decision that you're probably going to have to make is where you are prepared to compromise between efficiency and aesthetics. As Feltwell says, you can have flueless "living flame" gas fires, but in my limited experience they tend not to be very efficient. But I believe that a flued gas "open fire" can be a fair bit more effective as a room heater, although I don't know how much more gas it consumes.

I suggest that your best bet is to visit one or two specialist fireplace centres in your area, and have a chat with them. That way you can actually see the appliances in place, working, and experience their heat output for yourself.

Have a look in your local Yellow Pages.

Meanwhile, you might want to browse the gas fire sections of this website, for an idea of the kind of things available.

http://www.fireplaceworld.co.uk/

Thanks Penners. I hadn't seen that web site, and the Yellow Pages had totally slipped my mind. Indeed, there are a few local showrooms which I didn't know existed, so I guess I'll have to take a trip out.

I had a cheapo B&Q living flame effect fire in my previous house, and I got the impression that most heat went up the chimney. With the price of gas these days, that would irk me. I see some modern ones have subtle glass fronts and claim to be more efficient. I don't suppose anyone has any experience of those?

I know I should really get into the period way and mess about with coal, but the thought terrifies me!

 

[Baron de Gynes]

In our old house we had a 'living flame' gas fire, made by New World, I think it was. Oh, for the days when there was a hiss, a click and instantaneous heat...

It looked beautiful and kicked out a fair amount of heat. It was flued into the existing chimney (where there had previously been a gas fire with radiant ceramic blocks) and installed by a CORGI registered chap.

I don't know that a suitably period way for a 1930's house would be coal... ours (built 1933) had fireplaces downstairs with gas taps and tiled hearths upstairs (the fireplaces themselves being long-removed) with taps set into the floor boards in just the right place to stub one's bestockinged toe upon. I have no reason to believe that these were not original, but would be pleased to be contradicted.

 

[FamilyWiggs]

It sounds to me as if your bestockinged toes are indeed original, Baron.

 

[richw]

I don't know that a suitably period way for a 1930's house would be coal... ours (built 1933) had fireplaces downstairs with gas taps and tiled hearths upstairs (the fireplaces themselves being long-removed) with taps set into the floor boards

Our surviving coal fire (rear reception) is similar: it's not visible on my picture above, but there is a gas tap to the right-hand side of the hearth. It's just like the sort of thing I remember using with a Bunsen Burner in the school chemistry labs! I think the idea of the gas tap is to light something to then light the coal fire. Mine has had the supply disconnected.

 

[Feltwell]

I think the idea of the gas tap is to light something to then light the coal fire.

Yep - a gas poker. They work well.

http://www.bes.co.uk/products/015.asp

 

[88v8]

We have an art nouveau iron fireplace we fitted in the 1921 dining room to replace a tiled horror, and we fitted a gas tray, 86 this was.
Eventually it chucks out a good deal of heat. The flame heats the coals, then the fireback then the fire surround then the air... just like a gas boiler, nothing instant about a gas boiler if you think about it.... Don't suppose the gas tray is that efficient, but who cares..... life is too short to worry about efficiency.... beauty and atmosphere trumps efficiency every time. Anyway, you won't have that fire lit all day will you....

We also have a gas tray in our 1991 bathroom that I designed and had built, then fitted out myself, the fireplace is ex-salvage yard, god I shall miss that bathroom when we move, why are we moving I must have been mad.
That also chucks out plenty heat. Lie in the bath, open fire.... The plants get moved first of course.
Sorry, OT.

Ivor

 

[richw]

We have an art nouveau iron fireplace we fitted in the 1921 dining room to replace a tiled horror, and we fitted a gas tray, 86 this was.
Eventually it chucks out a good deal of heat.

Wow - that room looks wonderful.

It seems that all of the modern options won't look like the original coal fire. But if I get a reclaimed (or reproduction) fireplace in the exact 'correct' style, then I can only have a decorative gas fire. I'm still terrified of the idea of a 'decorative' one that is under 50% efficient, and doesn't chuck out much heat. My missus likes to switch it on and sit in front: if she doesn't feel warm instantly, then the whole thing will be deemed a failure.

In theory, the house is centrally heated, but it is still pretty cold. And it would be handy to have the ability to warm a room should the heating fail (which is did in early December, and it was down to 11degC inside!!!). Could a decorative fire actually heat a room?

I do like the look of something like http://www.c20fireplaces.co.uk/original_fireplace_inserts/f653_blue-arch-fireplace-insert with an art-deco style mantel... Hmm... decisions, decisions...