Fitting a Chimney Liner

[MdB]

As people have been asking about fitting a chimney liner, I thought I would post a few pics of our efforts today.

Wife was a bit surprised to see extra light in the spare room:

This might have been the reason:

(We had to remove the front of the chimney flue as it was in a very poor state and only being held together by a thin layer of cement render)

Whilst the flue was open, it made sense to get the liner into position so that we had access to it if need be. The liner chosen was 6m of 150mm 904 stainless with 5m worth of rockwool insulation. Nobody liked the idea of feeding it in from the top with insulation in place nor in from the top putting the insulation on as it was lowered so we went in from the bottom. Fortunately, our fireplace was just about large enough that we could get it in without too much hassle.

The rockwool insulation comes with a self adhesive strip which closes it with a good joint and we used aluminium tape to join one section to the next. Most of these section joints burst as it went around the corner but it was better than nothing and most were repaired once in position.

Most of the hole in the wall has been put back together today. Tomorrow the plan is to finish this, fit the chimney pot and hanging cowl and then play around with the connections to the stove.

 

[MatthewC]

How long did repairing the wall take? It would have been several days for me! Those are some serious stones you've got there.

Just to make it absolutely clear before people get misled, it's not normal to remove a large part of your exterior wall to fit a liner! :lol:

 

[MdB]

Wall is repaired now and chimney pot is installed (one and a half days work to get to this point). We are still waiting for a crucial T piece to go behind the stove so that we can measure exactly what length the liner needs to be cut off at before we fit the cowl.

There is still a lot of repointing work to be done on the wall though...

 

[MatthewC]

so that we can measure exactly what length the liner needs to be cut off at before we fit the cowl.

Watch those horrible sharp edges on the liner when it's cut....

 

[MdB]

so that we can measure exactly what length the liner needs to be cut off at before we fit the cowl.

Watch those horrible sharp edges on the liner when it's cut....

I learnt that lesson a couple of months ago when removing a section of old gas liner. It gave me a horrible deep cut that took weeks to heal. :x

The liner is now in place at the correct length. It needs a bit of additional support at the bottom and then connecting to the stove. Shouldn't be too much longer now before we can light it!
(We have been living in a house with 3 chimneys for 5 1/2 years without having a fire so can't wait (the Rayburn didn't count).)

 

[LadyArowana]

It needs a bit of additional support at the bottom

Spanx?

 

[MdB]

It needs a bit of additional support at the bottom

Spanx?

I am very glad to say I had to look that up!

 

[MdB]

Just thought I would follow this thread up with some more pictures:

Very pleased to get this up and running. We have had the house for almost 6 years now and although it has three chimneys, this is the first time we have had a proper fire.

 

[Zebra]

All looking very good MdB. Stonework on chimney and fireplace looks lovely. Glad you'll be toasty now!

 

[LadyArowana]

Lovely pictures, well done, worth all the hard work.

 

[Feltwell]

Looks great, a nice little stove as well. Is that one you managed to pick up secondhand or did you have multiple limb removal to buy one new?

I'm still debating what to do with the fireplace in our dining room. The original one is long since gone, in it's place someone has tiled the inside of the original builder's opening, fitted a modern pine surround and the fire is in a "dog basket". It sounds hideous but actually looks acceptable, if not great - the surround is quite chunky and large and fits in with the room.

Problem is, it's not actually very useable - the opening is too large, it tends to smoke into the room and stink the whole house out if a fire is lit.

We have 1 original fireplace left in the house that is still installed (in one of the bedrooms) and the broken remains of 1 that was left in the cellar, so we know what the original fireplaces were. Over the last 5 years I've been (very) slowly gathering up matching examples from Ebay, most of which are incomplete in one way or another. I have actually got 2 now that are of the right size to go in our lounge and dining room. These are identical to the originals, assuming of course that the builder used the same style of fireplace throughout the house - classic late Victorian combination cast iron fireplace in the "scotia" style.

The lounge currently has a "living flame" gas fire in which is actually very good - bear with me, I know that most don't look convincing or give out next to no heat. This one looks very convincing and gives out plenty of heat, which that room needs. The surround is wrong - a modern reproduction, it's a bit too early in style for this house and is not fitted that well.

The debate is what to do with them both. With the bits I've got, I can make up a complete "original" fireplace for the lounge and reinstall the current gas fire. For the dining room, I've got the surround but will need a new mantle shelf and some firebars. I can possibly get the mantleshelf cast using the other original one as a pattern, or if pushed can make one out of wood - I've seen that done, looks reasnobly convincing if you don't stare too closely. Firebars again I hope I can get cast but if not I'll see what pattern ones I can get.

For the dining room though, I am wondering if I'm doing the right thing in putting an open coal fire back in, rather than a stove. It will only be lit occasionally - when it's very cold or on special occasions. The rest of the time it's there for show. The flue is not lined at present, and if putting an open fire back in I hope I can avoid having to do so - it seems sound and the cost of scaffolding to get a liner fitted won't be cheap, it's a stack in the middle of the roof of a very tall house! If I went for a stove I realise it would have to be lined.

One interesting thing - when crawling about under the floorboards one day, I found a pipe protuding from the base of the chimney stack, under the hearth. It appears this was some kind of arrangement to supply fresh air to the fire from the void under the floor, which in turn is of course vented to the outside by airbricks in the usual way.

 

[MdB]

Looks great, a nice little stove as well. Is that one you managed to pick up secondhand or did you have multiple limb removal to buy one new?

The stove cost £100 but refurbishing it was another £100, liner + insulation + fittings was £500 and building work was £400 so we didn't get off lightly.

Problem is, it's not actually very useable - the opening is too large, it tends to smoke into the room and stink the whole house out if a fire is lit.

Can I ask what size your opening is and what size your flue is? We are going to have an open fire + dog basket at the other end of the room but haven't decided on a lintel height as yet (it needed to be replaced). I'm planning on doing the building regs ratio (6.66 to 1) but it would be useful to know a ratio that doesn't work well.

One interesting thing - when crawling about under the floorboards one day, I found a pipe protuding from the base of the chimney stack, under the hearth. It appears this was some kind of arrangement to supply fresh air to the fire from the void under the floor, which in turn is of course vented to the outside by airbricks in the usual way.

Might be worth reinstating this as you need 50% of your flue size in vents to meet the regs. Coming directly up next to the fire will help reduce draughts.

 

[JoceAndChris]

That's a lovely little stove, MdB - you'll enjoy that this winter, as apparently we're in for another cold one. (Not that Cornwall really does cold so you should probably just take that stove right out again and post it to me please.)

We have 5 working, original open fires here, and they keep us very busy indeed. Lighting them and keeping them burning, blacking the grates, getting rid of ash, polishing the marble, shining the brass, not to mention chopping down the trees, logging and storing and drying out the wood - it takes up a considerable chunk of time - probably one full day per week during the winter months.

I have huge stove envy and now wish we'd destroyed the 30s fireplace in the music room to install one. We spent quite a lot of money and time rebuilding it though so I don't feel we can, but if this decision were revisited I'd no have no hesitation in putting one in.

 

[Flyfisher]

One interesting thing - when crawling about under the floorboards one day, I found a pipe protuding from the base of the chimney stack, under the hearth. It appears this was some kind of arrangement to supply fresh air to the fire from the void under the floor, which in turn is of course vented to the outside by airbricks in the usual way.

We had a baxi open fire in a previous house and it had a pipe at the base that was connected to the outside via an airbrick. It seems to be a design-feature of Baxi fires, though I doubt it's unique. Also, as MdB rightly says, stoves above a certain kW rating require an external air supply in order to comply with building regs and with the increasingly airtight houses being built these days it makes good safety sense to ensure that any fire/stove has access to adequate fresh air.

 

[skier-hughes]

Our new fire has one. It uses underground soil pipe to bring the air from outside to the fire.

 

[MdB]

(Not that Cornwall really does cold so you should probably just take that stove right out again and post it to me please.)

Mrs MdB has asked me to point out that we were frozen out of the caravan when it was -13°C outside and -2°C on the inside. Everything froze including the dog water bowl.. Admittedly it doesn't happen often but it can get cold down here.

 

[88v8]

Depending on the chimney height and surroundings (trees, other buildings) 6:1 won't smoke, 8:1 probably will. You can reduce the size of the opening with a glass insert at the top. To arrive at the desired size, experiment with bits of steel plate.

Here's a lot of stuff about smokey chimneys.
http://www.chimneys.com/burning_secrets/chapter_4.html

I created air intakes for all our fireplaces. As we have suspended floors it was easy, I just cut them into the skirtings adjacent to the fireplace, they close with brass grilles.

Ivor

 

[Feltwell]

Over the last 5 years I've been (very) slowly gathering up matching examples from Ebay

And another one today Persistence pays off! £70 as the seller listed it is as a reproduction, which it clearly isn't, and it's nearly complete which is a bonus - just the flap to the flue is missing, I can make one of those out of sheet steel.

The stove cost £100 but refurbishing it was another £100.

Still sounds like a bargain to me.

Problem is, it's not actually very useable - the opening is too large, it tends to smoke into the room and stink the whole house out if a fire is lit.

Can I ask what size your opening is and what size your flue is? We are going to have an open fire + dog basket at the other end of the room but haven't decided on a lintel height as yet (it needed to be replaced). I'm planning on doing the building regs ratio (6.66 to 1) but it would be useful to know a ratio that doesn't work well.

I suspect it's as much to do with the draw from the chimney as anything, but....

Size of opening to room = 30" wide x 34" high x 14" deep

Entrance to the flue - 24" wide x 9" deep, sitting right at the back of the opening to the room, tapering quickly to a 9" square flue.

 

[MdB]

Thanks.

Size of opening to room = 30" wide x 34" high x 14" deep

Entrance to the flue - 24" wide x 9" deep, sitting right at the back of the opening to the room, tapering quickly to a 9" square flue.

Size of opening: 0.66 m^2

Size of flue: 0.052 m^2

Ratio: 12.6:1

Ok so you opening is roughly double what the regs say it should be which is a good indicator of the problem. It doesn't tell me that 6.6:1 will work but there is no reason why it shouldn't. It also suggests that the 9:1 ratio which I would like to do, is probably not a good idea.

 

[spot]

One thing you should be aware of when fitting a chimney liner is that afterwards you'll be able to hear a lot more noise from outside!
I guess when you've got an old craggy, uneven chimney any sounds get dissipated. Once the shiney, smooth liner is installed it seems any external noise shoots down the chimney. Dogs barking especially !