Floor drop on Georgian flat - timber shrinkage?

[Geefresh95]

Hi!

I'm looking at buying a small flat built circa 1820. It's the top of a four storey (plus basement) building in a long-ish terraced row. I rented it a few years ago for a year and a half and was very happy there, for both the place itself and other personal reasons. It was for sale at the time but I couldn't get the deposit together and ended up moving out before it was sold. After a few years of being (naturellement) an Airbnb, it is now back on the market and I'm now in a position to buy as a FTB, altho it's the top of my budget. For the same money I could get a victorian two-up, so I'm concerned it's a heart-over-head purchase. Aside from that, however, the main concern is...

The flat spans approx 5m and a false wall has been added running front to back (not sure when over the 200 years), chopping it into 1/3 & 2/3. The floor drops very noticeably, slanting down the to false wall. The drop is probably about 2 inches. I have spoken to one of the other freeholders who owns a flat two floors below and he said this was due to timber shrinkage since all the walls are wood. He said that one of the other flats further along on the terrace is even worse and it's nothing to worry about and it's more noticeable at the top. However, I have worked in and viewed another 4 flats in the terrace and didn't notice the same thing, even on the ones higher up. There is one where the lounge/kitchen spans the whole 5m with no false wall and there is no drop into the middle.

So...
Will it continue to get noticeably worse in the near to mid future or has the shrinkage shrunk to its shrinkiest amount? Does it make the flat a no-no outright? Is it something that will, at some point, need to be rectified, thereby leaving me in negative equity should I ever need to sell and/or need tens and tens of grands spent on it? Etc?

I stayed in it last night, since it's still an Airbnb, as a 'try before you possibly buy' thing and it felt like "coming home" so, if I did buy it, it would be a "forever home" for me (until I get old and the stairs are too much, that is!), so it's not like I'm looking to flip it for profit...but at the same time I obvs don't want to buy a duffer/total money pit.

If I go ahead, I'll be getting a survey of course but, before I drop grands on that, I thought I'd better consult with some period experts!

Thanks in advance!

Photos attached. This point, where the door frames for the lounge and front bedroom meet, is where it is worst.

 

[IHateDamp]

My top floor flat the floors were not level but I don't remember the gap under the doors being quite like that.

It's a good bargaining tool

I hope a good surveyor can put your mind at ease.

 

[Cubist]

A question or two if I may. Is the slope of the floor consistent across the width of the first room? Does the floor in the neighbouring room also slope or is it consistently level.

An observation for now. Whoever installed that door was a damn fool. Very clearly it was hung on the left when it should have been hung on the right. Were that to have been done the doors foot/bottom edge could then have been cut to leave a uniform gap between it and the sloping floor while still being able to fully open and close.

 

[Kearn]

That wall has been installed onto a sloping floor, you can see from the gradient in the skirting in the first pic, which has been scribed to the floor. As Cubist says, why they didn’t think to hang the door sensibly and scribe the bottom edge also….!?

Hard to know what’s going on with the actual floor structure, especially with the modern floor finish over.

 

[Geefresh95]

To be honest, altho there were carpets there when I was renting it, I don't recall the door being *that* bad before, so maybe a new one has been hung? It does make it look worse than it is.

The thing about bargaining tools is the implication that it's something you're going to have to spend money on further down the line, which is what I'm hoping to establish...

The "1/3" side definitely slopes more to the wall. There is still a slope on the "2/3" side but feels less severe. And it's definitely worse around where the photograph shows - the slope is still there towards the back of the property but also not as severely.

 

[Geefresh95]

Floor plan. As you may be able to work out, the photo is of a section that is about where the entrance door is on the floor below. No evidence of the drop is, iirc, visible down there.

 

[phillc]

My gut view is that a supporting wall, running left to right, has been removed in a lower flat, so you now have unsupported joist ends at that junction that are sagging.

There having been a wall below you, running left right along the front edge of the staircase (assuming it is an original stairwell) makes a lot of sense.

For that pattern, "timber wall shrinkage" makes no sense to me as an explanation.

Did the flat you saw with a full.width room have a left right wall or a lump in the ceiling, where a boxed in steel.could live?

But, only.a proper survey will really know.

 

[Geefresh95]

The point circled on the floorplan is where everyone's entrances are. i.e. the entrances to the two flats below are where the doorway to 'my' kitchen/dining/reception is. Below the landing and stairwell in 'my' flat are the landings and stairwell for the whole building, so the walls around that will be intact all the way down.

Including this one, I have previously been in 7 flats on this terrace, both for work and viewings and they all differ in layout. I assume they were at one point whole houses (with servants quarters in the basement) for Georg- and Victorian rich folk, so have all been developed at different points, and differently, into flats.

No, no 'bump' for beams in the other one I viewed recently and, as stated, their lounge/kichen/diner spans the whole building, doing away with the front bedroom and part of the landing from 'my' one.
NB - this is in another building on the terrace.

Perhaps you are correct and it is the other freeholder that I spoke to that has the missing walls, hence his 'timber shrinkage' story, lol.

 

[Cubist]

Theres a common sense logic associated with the orientation of joists in any building insofar that these will always, albeit with some exceptions, be laid across the shortest spans of any given room. The primary purpose of this is to avoid or reduce amount of deflection that may occur at the centre point of the span. Given the floor plans for this building and the fact that the stairs used to house and support them are most likely of solid masonry construction the The floor of the kitchen/diner area shown will run from the wall carrying the bedroom and landing to the external wall on the far left of the diagrams. The slope of the floor shown in the earlier photo could then be due to rot or decay of the joist ends, embedded in masonry sockets, in either or both the bedroom and/or the kitchen diner. If the slope you have there is confined to the bedroom and landing and does not continue through to any part of the kitchen diner then the problem is associated only with those joists. If, however, the slope continues across any area of the kitchen/diner beyond that where the sink and cooker are marked then that may indicate the use of longer joists spanning from the external wall and flying over the stairs to then rest in pockets in the masonry wall to the far right of the building.

Rot or decay of joist ends will often result in a localised dip in the floor which can typically be observed as gaps of varying height beneath the bottom edge of any skirting boards. If however a reasonably consistent height of any such gap along the full length of the skirting is observed, and the floor generally slopes in that same direction, this can indicate a failure or weakening of a supporting timber/beam OR any masonry housings/pockets used to carry it.

Are you able to confirm whether the slope you have there is limited to the areas directly above the stair well or does it continue into the kitchen/diner?