Floorboards and fireplaces

[simonej]

Hello all, my first post here so go easy on me!

We have a mid 19c stone-built house in Yorkshire that we are just starting renovation work on and I’m stumbling upon a few issues that I wasn’t fully expecting.

I won’t bore everyone with the whole backstory but the house has been in the family for over 100 years but has had various bodged repairs over the years, most notably by the coal board while fixing subsidence.

Anyway, first question: here’s a picture of some of the floorboards.



Am I right in thinking the wider boards are Georgian and as such date the house to perhaps 1830 or earlier? We’ve always assumed it was about 1820-1840 but we can’t find any records.

Unfortunately some of the wider boards are damaged on the edges - I think mainly it’s the grove that’s broken. Is it possible to lift the boards and have them sawn along both edges, perhaps removing half an inch either side, in order to create a square edged but slightly narrower?


I realise I’d need to source some extra boards to make up for the shortfall in width across the floor. The narrow boards are also slightly higher than the wide boards but someone in the past has been kind enough to taper the edges down to meet the slightly lower boards. Do I just embrace this character or do I lift the boards and try to rectify?

Thanks for any help and suggestions!

 

[CliffordPope]

I'm sure an expert will be along shortly, but FWIW my understanding is that Georgian floorboards were 7 - 13 inches wide, Victorian anything from 4 to 7 but most commonly 5 to 6. Georgian were thicker too, weren't they?
I don't think T&G came in until machine woodworking, late 19th century.
Incidentally I have noticed two kinds of T&G - modern with the tongue offset along the edge, and what I assumed to be earlier with the tongue placed down the middle of the edge. It was frustrating when I discovered it - my stock of reclaimed mixed kinds wouldn't fit each other.

 

[88v8]

Hello and welcome.

Nice that this has been a family house.

T&G. Great. Until they need lifting. In general, don't!!
How do you intend to finish the floor? Are you making it sound for a floorcovering, or do you intend to stain & polish it... which is a whole different story on which many Threads have been writ.

It is possible to lift t&g boards of course, using a board lifter or less successfully a bolster chisel, but almost inevitably one will be doing more damage to the tongues &/or grooves. Choose a board that doesn't matter as your entry point, accept that you may mangle it.

The tongue can be cut with a padsaw, but.... so can any electric cables running underneath.

If nails come up with the boards, pull them through the back with a Mole wrench, don't knock them upwards or it will damage the surface.
If T&G, they may be secret-nailed through the tongues in which case it is virtually impossible to lift the boards without splitting the tongues, so as I mentioned, the best rule is Don't!

Having lifted them you can just rip the edges by hand or with a power saw, and then true them again with a shooting plane.

When relaying old t&g, secret-nail them but predrill the nail holes so the tongue won't split; when new the wood was softer, now it will be tinder dry.

Thinner new boards can be accommodated by propping them up on bits of cardboard. Old boards can be bought from reclamation specialists.

I won't ramble on any more - your picture doesn''t show anything that appears to need attention if you're going to be laying lino or carpet, so where are you going with the floor?

Yes, the wider boards are probably older and if they run under skirtings or stud walls for instance, would date to the building of the house.

Edit; interesting what Clifford say about tongues - I laid some reclaimed oak t&g, inch and eigth thick, it all came from the same 1903 house but there were two distinct lots and they wouldn't talk to each other. Grrr.


Ivor

 

[simonej]

Thanks, Clifford and thanks 88v8 for the comprehensive reply.

The wide boards are about 9”, the small boards 4.5”. All boards seem to be wedged firmly under the skirtings but whether they’re original or not is another matter. I know if I start pulling the skirtings off I will destroy them and my intention is to keep them.

The plan for the floor is to have it exposed, fixed and waxed, mainly because we’re reinstating the fireplace as well and the original hearth is at the same level as the boards - not really sure how I’d run a carpet up to the hearth without fixing some kind of surround around it.

I’ve searched for the floorboard threads and happy with how I’ll sand and treat them, it’s just the repairing of the broken boards that concerns me.

My plan was to take up the broken boards, of which it’s mainly the wide boards, and then cut them down to square edges. I was going to measure them precisely to fit the gaps, so let’s say I take up 3x 9” boards it’ll leave a 27” gap. I was going to cut the boards down to 7” each and then source a 6” board from elsewhere to fill the remaining gap. Fixing would be with the hand cut nails through the top surface. Would this work and would it be an acceptable repair? It’s not listed so there are no considerations like that.

 

[88v8]

Fire surround... yes, for fitted carpet would need to screw it down to the floor. Or of course Turkey rugs can be laid loose, and look jolly good with a wood floor.

Bare boards are pretty noisy upstairs, if one is downstairs. Perhaps not an issue if you've no sprogs.

Anyway... in general if one were restoring, one would prefer slightly mangled original fabric to new replacements. But that's a matter of judgement.
However, t&g is much better for a bare downstairs floor as the wind doesn't whistle through the [inevitable] gaps. So that's a consideration to balance against cosmetics, and when the floor has been stained and coated and any holes filled, and the room furnished and a couple of Turkey rugs... the cosmetic shortcomings will in any case be less noticeable.

If you look at the floors of old National Trust houses, some them are pretty mangled, but one accepts it as part of the history.

Assuming you know where you will put the furniture and rugs, you may be able to shuffle the boards so that the visible areas will be old wood and the repairs/patches will be hidden. This would be much preferable, as unless you are going to employ a [good] professional to do the staining, you may well find that the new wood sticks out like a sore thumb.

Do you have or will you be fitting central heating? If so, the boards will shrink, and new wood will shrink worse. In which case I'd leave the floor for a year or three.
In any event, new wood will shrink so the less you use the better. The salvage yard is your friend.

Yes, in principle, no problem with planing them down, need not be to a uniform width, can be varied depending on the damage to each board.
Where you join the ends, they should be slash cut.
However, the boards of course run across the whole room; now, one could plane the whole length, but to eliminate what may be quite a small fault, that would be a shame, so I'd consider just cutting out the damage and glueing in a patch, with 45 degree ends. If you sacrifice a damaged piece of one of the original boards, that would provide matching timber to patch a lot of the others and will minimise the need for new timber.

I'd be leery of using filler on gaps between the boards. It's hard to blend the stain and is liable to create a zebra effect.

Cut nails... are fine for new timber but will split old boards. If you really want that authentic oblong hole, I'd predrill the boards, then of course punch them in and fill with... whatever is compatible with your stain/finish. Myself, when I've put old boards down I used ovals, still predrilling to avoid splits, or brass screws, slothead of course.

Nine inch boards. Lovely.

Ivor