Full renovation: Stone walls and floor advice

[OliviaM]

Hi,

Ive recently bought an 1850s terrace property. It’s painted on the outside due to the stone being highly porous (according to neighbours). When I bought it, surveys said it had rising damp.
It was off the scale on our moisture meter however after removing endless layers of tiles, various plasters and unknown materials and leaving it to breath moisture levels have come right down.
We also removed screed off the floor and found original Yorkshire stone flags which id like to keep. At the moment the flags are directly on sand and earth. If i were to leave them as they are i think they'd be quite cold. If i pulled them up and did the whole membrane and concrete id be worried about breathability and that affecting my walls.

My questions are:

Am I better to plaster straight onto the walls with Limelite or leave a gap between the wall and plasterboard?

What are my options for the floor? Id like to keep the flags but am open to selling them too.

Total old house novice so please over explain or add any extra advice or suggestions too!

Extra info for full picture: external floor is higher so thinking of a drainage pipe. I have sandblasted the back wall so I can repoint. Previous owner had added a window on back wall. See pictures.

Olivia

 

[aockenden]

"after removing endless layers of tiles, various plasters and unknown materials and leaving it to breath moisture levels have come right down" - Well done.

"We also removed screed off the floor and found original Yorkshire stone flags which id like to keep" - Ughhh lucky, they look gorgeous. When will it be my turn?

"If i were to leave them as they are i think they'd be quite cold." - Agreed they would be

"If i pulled them up and did the whole membrane and concrete id be worried about breathability and that affecting my walls." - Agreed on this as well, this is probably not the right approach for an old house

"Am I better to plaster straight onto the walls with Limelite or leave a gap between the wall and plasterboard?" - Two clarifying questions are needed before answering this: Do you care about improving the insulation value of the walls AND do you care about maintaining an organic, undulating / curvy profile to your walls or do you want to outright flatten them? Idk much about Limelite but what's wrong with a proper lime plaster?

"What are my options for the floor? Id like to keep the flags but am open to selling them too." - The typical approach is to pull up the tiles / flags, excavate down into the soil beneath, lay down a thick layer of free-draining , breathable, capillarly-broken, insulating aggregate such as pumice, lightweight expanded clay aggregate (LECA), or foam glass. Then you lay a new breathable limecrete slab ontop of that insulating layer, and then replace the tiles / flags. You can also add underfloor heating pipes into the new limecrete slab as you do this if you want that. It would be such a shame to lose those as they look to be in excellent shape and an excellent tight-fitting quality.

 

[OliviaM]

This is extremely useful thank you for taking the time. The information about the floor is exactly what I needed and has cheered me right up after having conflicting advice from builders!

I’m wanting to retain as many original characteristics as possible. In terms of insulation, it’s a mid terrace anyway and very small. So lime plaster straight onto the walls sounds like a good option. I do have a few nice features around doors and windows too so that would make it easier to have them on show.

 

[aockenden]

This is extremely useful thank you for taking the time. The information about the floor is exactly what I needed and has cheered me right up after having conflicting advice from builders!

I’m wanting to retain as many original characteristics as possible. In terms of insulation, it’s a mid terrace anyway and very small. So lime plaster straight onto the walls sounds like a good option. I do have a few nice features around doors and windows too so that would make it easier to have them on show.

No problem. The key-phrase to search when doing your research on the flooring option discussed is "insulated limecrete floor". Mike Wye has some docs on how to install them, and if you want in-depth videos on installling one, I highly recommend the "Make. Do. Grow" channel on Youtube. They did their own using LECA in a stone house in portugal and they show the entire process, but there are lots of other Youtube channels showing similar installs.

Good point about the mid-terrace needing less wall-insulation, as you're obviously huddled up like penguins sharing body heat for warmth with your neighbors walls. Yeah in that case a good quality NHL 2 or preferably a Lime Putty based plaster directly onto the stone should be perfectly fine. Alternatively you could just repoint and keep exposed stone, or repoint + Limewash. Lots of options, but definitely not worth the studs + plasterboard option under your circumstances in my opinion. More costly, most complex, more risks, and less character left in the house.

 

[Ashville87]

This is extremely useful thank you for taking the time. The information about the floor is exactly what I needed and has cheered me right up after having conflicting advice from builders!

I’m wanting to retain as many original characteristics as possible. In terms of insulation, it’s a mid terrace anyway and very small. So lime plaster straight onto the walls sounds like a good option. I do have a few nice features around doors and windows too so that would make it easier to have them on show.

I dug out my original Victorian dirt floor earlier this year (the original quarry tiles were under a levelling screed and had to go in the skip unfortunately) and I ended up putting a concrete screed on top of a Geocell foam glass layer. I was advised by my supplier the Geocell does not let moisture rise as far as the screed so can have no issue with damp being pushed out to the walls. This may be something to consider to save some time and cost.

 

[OliviaM]

Hi,

Ive recently bought an 1850s terrace property. It’s painted on the outside due to the stone being highly porous (according to neighbours). When I bought it, surveys said it had rising damp.
It was off the scale on our moisture meter however after removing endless layers of tiles, various plasters and unknown materials and leaving it to breath moisture levels have come right down.
We also removed screed off the floor and found original Yorkshire stone flags which id like to keep. At the moment the flags are directly on sand and earth. If i were to leave them as they are i think they'd be quite cold. If i pulled them up and did the whole membrane and concrete id be worried about breathability and that affecting my walls.

My questions are:

Am I better to plaster straight onto the walls with Limelite or leave a gap between the wall and plasterboard?

What are my options for the floor? Id like to keep the flags but am open to selling them too.

Total old house novice so please over explain or add any extra advice or suggestions too!

Extra info for full picture: external floor is higher so thinking of a drainage pipe. I have sandblasted the back wall so I can repoint. Previous owner had added a window on back wall. See pictures.View attachment 13772

Olivia View attachment 13770View attachment 13771

So! I started some exploratory work within the property so I could begin the flooring project. I wanted to dig a small tunnel down a wall to check how far down the walls went and if it would be safe to dig down (based on advice from a Mike Wye advisor).

Under the stairs seemed a good place to start as there was a concrete slab under there instead which could easily be removed. Started digging and discovered the floor was filled with bricks, rubble, bits of pottery etc. Every time I removed a brick rubble would just fall through the holes and seem to be sucked downward. I apprehensively continued to dig until I reached what I think is the step to a cellar. Feeling very confused as the rest of the flags appear to be straight onto earth.

Can there be a cellar under stone flags in earth?
The flags are so tightly laid they seem original.
What would be holding up the roof if this is a cellar?
How will this affect my floor plans?!

Another puzzle

 

[OliviaM]

I dug out my original Victorian dirt floor earlier this year (the original quarry tiles were under a levelling screed and had to go in the skip unfortunately) and I ended up putting a concrete screed on top of a Geocell foam glass layer. I was advised by my supplier the Geocell does not let moisture rise as far as the screed so can have no issue with damp being pushed out to the walls. This may be something to consider to save some time and cost.

Interesting! I’ll have a look into this- I definitely need to save money where I can!

 

[aockenden]

So! I started some exploratory work within the property so I could begin the flooring project. I wanted to dig a small tunnel down a wall to check how far down the walls went and if it would be safe to dig down (based on advice from a Mike Wye advisor).

Under the stairs seemed a good place to start as there was a concrete slab under there instead which could easily be removed. Started digging and discovered the floor was filled with bricks, rubble, bits of pottery etc. Every time I removed a brick rubble would just fall through the holes and seem to be sucked downward. I apprehensively continued to dig until I reached what I think is the step to a cellar. Feeling very confused as the rest of the flags appear to be straight onto earth.

Can there be a cellar under stone flags in earth?
The flags are so tightly laid they seem original.
What would be holding up the roof if this is a cellar?
How will this affect my floor plans?!

Another puzzle

View attachment 13855

View attachment 13856

View attachment 13857

Haha WOW, you just keep getting lucky! I would LOVE to find a cellar under our house. I think it’s totally possible to have stone flags over a cellar. Old stone cellars often have arched / domed stone ceilings which are extremely strong. Think of ancient stone domed / arched ceilings of catacombs below old churches and cities. They are holding up entire buildings / neighborhoods.

 

[eon]

Hi Olivia, very interesting thread! Your house is lovely, please do keep sharing updates when you can.

Our house has a “pit” in an adjacent outbuilding at the back, all the neighbours have the same, and we think it was storage for coal. As yours is inside and directly beneath the stairs I’m wondering if it was some sort of cold storage for food. I suspect it will take up the foot print of the stairs, rather than extend beneath the whole floor. But you never know what you will find!

I wanted to add, regarding the flooring, as suggested above you can have foamed glass with a poured concrete on top. If you are still concerned with breathability where the concrete meets the walls you can have a border of limecrete along your exterior front and back walls. We also have a terraced house, and I think this is the route we will be taking. Several reasons for this, but primarily because where we live there’s no one who will pour limecrete. And while I’m happy do it myself that means storing multiple pallets of lime and sand is an issue. So this option seems like a good practical compromise.

Good luck with your dig!

 

[OliviaM]

Hi Olivia, very interesting thread! Your house is lovely, please do keep sharing updates when you can.

Our house has a “pit” in an adjacent outbuilding at the back, all the neighbours have the same, and we think it was storage for coal. As yours is inside and directly beneath the stairs I’m wondering if it was some sort of cold storage for food. I suspect it will take up the foot print of the stairs, rather than extend beneath the whole floor. But you never know what you will find!

I wanted to add, regarding the flooring, as suggested above you can have foamed glass with a poured concrete on top. If you are still concerned with breathability where the concrete meets the walls you can have a border of limecrete along your exterior front and back walls. We also have a terraced house, and I think this is the route we will be taking. Several reasons for this, but primarily because where we live there’s no one who will pour limecrete. And while I’m happy do it myself that means storing multiple pallets of lime and sand is an issue. So this option seems like a good practical compromise.

Good luck with your dig!

You predicted correctly! I will definitely keep updating it’s great to see other people doing similar projects. Here is the tiny shelving area. I’m thinking you’re right with the fridge/food-store idea. I just received a bunch of old title documents today too that say that, exactly as you mentioned, the coal store and water sheds were right at the back of the garden. I’ll attach a photo of my ‘cellar’ .